[gentoo-java] binary virtual machines and use flags / dependencies (X, alsa, odbc)

[gentoo-java] binary virtual machines and use flags / dependencies (X, alsa, odbc)

[Joshua Nichols]

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Currently, all the binary virtual machines link against libraries from
X, alsa, and  unixODBC.

Currently, we handle this in a couple ways (using alsa as an example):
* Have ' alsa? ( media-libs/alsa-lib ) ' in DEPEND/RDEPEND
	In these cases, if you don't use the USE flag, you'll have shared
objects that don't have don't have all their deps filled. This prob

* Have ' alsa? ( media-libs/alsa-lib ) ' in DEPEND/RDEPEND, and remove
the libs that link against alsa libs.
	This is better, as revdep-rebuild wouldn't be unhappy about the missing
symbols. However, if you use some classes need the missing shared
library, I'm not sure what will happen. Nothing good, I'd guess.

I don't think either of these are particular ideal. I think it would
slightly better to depend on the things that the libraries needed.
Someone that _really_ doesn't want the dependencies could put them into
/etc/portage/package.provided.

Any thoughts, or perhaps other suggestions?

- - Josh
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Re: [gentoo-java] binary virtual machines and use flags / dependencies (X, alsa, odbc)

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 21:04 -0500, Joshua Nichols wrote:
>
> 
> I don't think either of these are particular ideal. I think it would
> slightly better to depend on the things that the libraries needed.

Well I am not sure that would work or be ideal. A few reasons. One if
someone was on a server and so not using alsa, extra stuff is pulled in.
Now one could say big deal.

However two, if we installed all deps by default that would also include
X. Which is a very large app, many deps, takes forever to compile even
on fast hardware.

Now some time back when I was using JGenerator (a servlet) via Tomcat it
had deps on X. I can't recall what happened, I do not believe it was
anything catatstrophic. At the same time it was not the greatest either,
logs were created and JGenerator would not work till I installed X.

Granted both these scenarios are more server related than desktop.
However it's cases where the extra stuff would not be wanted across the
board. Much less have to package.provide stuff etc?

Unfortunately I think use flag is best, and yes it creates broken
symbols and etc for missing stuff. Not sure what to say, but it's murky
waters, and I am not sure there is any elegant, or ideal way to go about
it? Will keep the thinking cap on about it though.

-- 
Sincerely,
William L. Thomson Jr.
Obsidian-Studios, Inc.
http://www.obsidian-studios.com

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Re: [gentoo-java] binary virtual machines and use flags / dependencies (X, alsa, odbc)

[Joshua Nichols]

William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 21:04 -0500, Joshua Nichols wrote:
>   
>> I don't think either of these are particular ideal. I think it would
>> slightly better to depend on the things that the libraries needed.
>>     
>
> Well I am not sure that would work or be ideal. A few reasons. One if
> someone was on a server and so not using alsa, extra stuff is pulled in.
> Now one could say big deal.
>
> However two, if we installed all deps by default that would also include
> X. Which is a very large app, many deps, takes forever to compile even
> on fast hardware.
>
> Now some time back when I was using JGenerator (a servlet) via Tomcat it
> had deps on X. I can't recall what happened, I do not believe it was
> anything catatstrophic. At the same time it was not the greatest either,
> logs were created and JGenerator would not work till I installed X.
>
> Granted both these scenarios are more server related than desktop.
> However it's cases where the extra stuff would not be wanted across the
> board. Much less have to package.provide stuff etc?
>
> Unfortunately I think use flag is best, and yes it creates broken
> symbols and etc for missing stuff. Not sure what to say, but it's murky
> waters, and I am not sure there is any elegant, or ideal way to go about
> it? Will keep the thinking cap on about it though.
>
>   
For now, I think I agree that the use flag just for dependencies is the
best route to take.  We currently do this to an extent, but just need to
make sure it is applied to all the appropriate VMs


- Josh
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Re: [gentoo-java] binary virtual machines and use flags / dependencies (X, alsa, odbc)

[Petteri Räty]

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Joshua Nichols wrote:
> William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 21:04 -0500, Joshua Nichols wrote:
>>   
>>> I don't think either of these are particular ideal. I think it would
>>> slightly better to depend on the things that the libraries needed.
>>>     
>> Well I am not sure that would work or be ideal. A few reasons. One if
>> someone was on a server and so not using alsa, extra stuff is pulled in.
>> Now one could say big deal.
>>
>> However two, if we installed all deps by default that would also include
>> X. Which is a very large app, many deps, takes forever to compile even
>> on fast hardware.
>>
>> Now some time back when I was using JGenerator (a servlet) via Tomcat it
>> had deps on X. I can't recall what happened, I do not believe it was
>> anything catatstrophic. At the same time it was not the greatest either,
>> logs were created and JGenerator would not work till I installed X.
>>
>> Granted both these scenarios are more server related than desktop.
>> However it's cases where the extra stuff would not be wanted across the
>> board. Much less have to package.provide stuff etc?
>>
>> Unfortunately I think use flag is best, and yes it creates broken
>> symbols and etc for missing stuff. Not sure what to say, but it's murky
>> waters, and I am not sure there is any elegant, or ideal way to go about
>> it? Will keep the thinking cap on about it though.
>>
>>   
> For now, I think I agree that the use flag just for dependencies is the
> best route to take.  We currently do this to an extent, but just need to
> make sure it is applied to all the appropriate VMs
> 

IMHO the best course of action is to use use flags and delete the shared
libraries if the use flag is turned off. I just never go to finishing
the work I started. Many people use java on server machines and as such
don't want anything X installed.

Regards,
Petteri


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