[gentoo-java] Startup advice

[gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Stuart Howard]

Hi

I am a Gentoo user with an urge to try my hand at coding, java seems
to fit the bill as a language that has cross platform appeal and so
on, you guys know the rest.

My question is this, I want to spend my time learning the language not
the various apps that allow me to do this so what would your
recommendation be for a new starter such as myself.
I seem to have a choice of using either blackdown or the sun packages,
I have read sufficient to realise that the blackdown project was the
original linux port of Sun's Java but Today what would you suggest as
the platform to pick ie. is the Blackdown package well supported under
Gentoo? will updates come promptly when considered stable? or the the
Sun package better supported? and for that matter as a new user would
I be better of with one or the other for a reason I have not yet come
too?
Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
good choice? again your experiance would be helpful at this stage, the
netbeans site seems to imply that they provide functinality not
available elsewhere will this mean that my code [once I get there ;) ]
be specific to netbeans? or should I go for a fundamentalist approach
and stick to "simple" approach and trusty vim?

Any Gentoo/general points will happily received

stu

ps. You may wonder why I dont just read the websites, well what can I
say but I am doing but inevitablly websites lead to a slanted view,
after all people have spent their valable time to put it up there so
of course they prefer there approach whereas as a list will grab a
broader view on the subject.

--
"There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand
binary, those who don't"

--Unknown

-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Ray Hunter]

Stuart Howard wrote:
> I am a Gentoo user with an urge to try my hand at coding, java seems
> to fit the bill as a language that has cross platform appeal and so
> on, you guys know the rest.
> 
> My question is this, I want to spend my time learning the language not
> the various apps that allow me to do this so what would your
> recommendation be for a new starter such as myself.

get a book on java and learn the fundamentals.

> I seem to have a choice of using either blackdown or the sun packages,
> I have read sufficient to realise that the blackdown project was the
> original linux port of Sun's Java but Today what would you suggest as
> the platform to pick ie. is the Blackdown package well supported under
> Gentoo? will updates come promptly when considered stable? or the the
> Sun package better supported? and for that matter as a new user would
> I be better of with one or the other for a reason I have not yet come
> too?

either one is a good one to start learning java with then you can start
to formulate your opinions on the different jvms. I, personally, use
sun, blackdown, and jikes (in that order).

> Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> good choice? again your experiance would be helpful at this stage, the
> netbeans site seems to imply that they provide functinality not
> available elsewhere will this mean that my code [once I get there ;) ]
> be specific to netbeans? or should I go for a fundamentalist approach
> and stick to "simple" approach and trusty vim?

vim is a great editor...however, it is not an ide. I am very partial to
eclipse. what a great tool...now, if they only had a killer vim plugin
then my world would be complete.

--
ray
-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Joshua Nichols]

Stuart Howard wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am a Gentoo user with an urge to try my hand at coding, java seems
> to fit the bill as a language that has cross platform appeal and so
> on, you guys know the rest.
>
> My question is this, I want to spend my time learning the language not
> the various apps that allow me to do this so what would your
> recommendation be for a new starter such as myself.
> I seem to have a choice of using either blackdown or the sun packages,
> I have read sufficient to realise that the blackdown project was the
> original linux port of Sun's Java but Today what would you suggest as
> the platform to pick ie. is the Blackdown package well supported under
> Gentoo? will updates come promptly when considered stable? or the the
> Sun package better supported? and for that matter as a new user would
> I be better of with one or the other for a reason I have not yet come
> too?
>   
Blackdown is as well supported as Sun on Gentoo, as far as JDK/JREs go. 
The common belief is that Sun is faster than Blackdown, but I've never 
seen any hard numbers. Aside from that, they should be functionally the 
same.
> Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> good choice? again your experiance would be helpful at this stage, the
> netbeans site seems to imply that they provide functinality not
> available elsewhere will this mean that my code [once I get there ;) ]
> be specific to netbeans? or should I go for a fundamentalist approach
> and stick to "simple" approach and trusty vim?
>   
I've heard good things aboug BlueJ [1] for an IDE for a beginner. The 
idea is that you use that while learning the language, and then 
eventually ween yourself off of it onto a more full-fledged IDE, like 
netbeans or eclipse. Unfortunately, we don't have a package for it yet.

I personally live and die by Eclipse. It has a lot of functionality 
built-in, in addition to the multitude of quality third-party plugins.


> Any Gentoo/general points will happily received
>   
You may want to use ~arch keywords for your Java packages.There hasn't 
been a lot of stablization going on recently, but this is something we 
are currently working on.
> stu
>
> ps. You may wonder why I dont just read the websites, well what can I
> say but I am doing but inevitablly websites lead to a slanted view,
> after all people have spent their valable time to put it up there so
> of course they prefer there approach whereas as a list will grab a
> broader view on the subject.
>
>   


- Josh
-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Peter B. West]

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Stuart Howard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am a Gentoo user with an urge to try my hand at coding, java seems
> to fit the bill as a language that has cross platform appeal and so
> on, you guys know the rest.
> 
> My question is this, I want to spend my time learning the language not
> the various apps that allow me to do this so what would your
> recommendation be for a new starter such as myself.
> I seem to have a choice of using either blackdown or the sun packages,
> I have read sufficient to realise that the blackdown project was the
> original linux port of Sun's Java but Today what would you suggest as
> the platform to pick ie. is the Blackdown package well supported under
> Gentoo? will updates come promptly when considered stable? or the the
> Sun package better supported? and for that matter as a new user would
> I be better of with one or the other for a reason I have not yet come
> too?
> Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> good choice? again your experiance would be helpful at this stage, the
> netbeans site seems to imply that they provide functinality not
> available elsewhere will this mean that my code [once I get there ;) ]
> be specific to netbeans? or should I go for a fundamentalist approach
> and stick to "simple" approach and trusty vim?

Use an IDE. I haven't seen any responses so far indicating that NetBeans 
is *not* supported on Gentoo, but there were difficulties with it 
earlier on. There has recently been much ado about providing Java 5.0 on 
Gentoo, but again, I don't know the current status.

When I was using Gentoo, I installed all of my own Java, because I need 
a Java 5.0 environment, and NetBeans. I recommend you ask specific 
questions about these topics. I further recommend starting and staying 
with Java 5.0.  It is the single most far-reaching extension to the 
language, and it is the future of Java programming. Get used to 
generics, typesafe enums, extended for loop functionality, autoboxing, 
etc., and don't look back.

I was an Eclipse user until I switched to J5 something over a year ago. 
At that time Eclipse did not support J5, so I switched to NetBeans 4.0. 
NB 5.0 is at release candidate stage now, and is a significantly better 
than 4.0. The new GUI builder, Matisse, offers  new layout manager, 
which you will have have to distribute with applications if you use it. 
Alternatively, you can opt for the standard Java layout managers, like 
GridBag. As with most (any?) GUI building tools, if you need round-trip 
design, you will have to preserve the tool settings in the code, and 
preserve any ancillary files; form files in the case of NetBeans. By 
round-trip, I mean the ability to use the designer to build the code, 
modify the code (possibly in another IDE), and re-open the code in the 
original GUI designer for modification.

When I switched to NetBeans, Eclipse did not support Swing, the 
Java-provided higher-level GUI classes. If you wanted to build Swing 
apps, you were on your own. Eclipse had SWT, its own windowing toolkit, 
with closer links to the underlying operating system.  You will have to 
ask an Eclipse aficionado about the implications of that for 
portability, but I imagine that you will need to carry some SWT library 
functionality with your apps. Again, ask an expert about the current 
Eclipse situation.

NetBeans supports web and J2EE app development out of the box. I believe 
that Eclipse requires various plugins to achieve similar functionality. 
NB is available as a platform on which to build applications. I assume 
that same is true of Eclipse, the difference being that your GUI apps 
built on NB will be Swing based.  See the Java API docs for the 
javax.swing.* packages.

Since 4.0, NB has been completely re-designed to align the product with 
Ant. The build, run, debug and Javadocs build functions of all projects 
are based on Ant. That includes projects with existing code, and 
projects with existing code and an existing build.xml script, which was 
my case. This provides tremendous development flexibility, especially 
for projects imported with an existing build.xml, but also for new 
projects built by NB. The former can generally be built by other 
developers without NB. The latter require a little more tweaking, but 
the process has been carried out and discussed on the mailing-list.

No, I don't work for Sun. NetBeans provided the support I needed for the 
development of J5 and Swing based open source software, when I needed 
it, and I like to acknowledge that.

Peter
-- 
Peter B. West <http://cv.pbw.id.au/>
Folio <http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/>

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Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Ted Kosan]

Stuart wrote:

> I am a Gentoo user with an urge to try my hand at coding, java seems
> to fit the bill as a language that has cross platform appeal and so
> on, you guys know the rest.
> 
> My question is this, I want to spend my time learning the language not
> the various apps that allow me to do this so what would your
> recommendation be for a new starter such as myself.

Here is an online course that I put together a few years ago to help Java
beginners get started with Java.  You might find it helpful:

http://javadevices.org/javacourses/foundation_module/lectures/lecture1.html

It does not include directions specific to working with Java on Gentoo, but
after JDK5.0 has stabalized I might add this information.



> I seem to have a choice of using either blackdown or the sun packages,
> I have read sufficient to realise that the blackdown project was the
> original linux port of Sun's Java but Today what would you suggest as
> the platform to pick ie. is the Blackdown package well supported under
> Gentoo? will updates come promptly when considered stable? or the the
> Sun package better supported? and for that matter as a new user would
> I be better of with one or the other for a reason I have not yet come
> too?

I agree with another poster that eventually you will want to focus your efforts
on J2SE 5.0 but for people just learning Java you should be fine learning the
fundamentals on J2SE 1.4.



> Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> good choice? again your experiance would be helpful at this stage, the
> netbeans site seems to imply that they provide functinality not
> available elsewhere will this mean that my code [once I get there ;) ]
> be specific to netbeans? or should I go for a fundamentalist approach
> and stick to "simple" approach and trusty vim?

This is where my opionin will usually differ with most people.  My
recommendation is that Java beginners should start with a Java editor and do
all of thier development from the command line. The reason for this is that I
think people do not truly understand how Java works until they understand how
Java's runtime environemnt works at the commmand line level.

I learned this lesson the hard way.  I teach Java at the University level and
when I first started teaching Java I had the students use the JDK and a command
line.  Even though it was more difficult than using an IDE, it worked fairly
well and most of these students eventually mastered Java.

In later Java intro classes I decided to make things easier by switching to an
IDE.  The classes were a bit easier but in the more advanced Java classes I
found that these students did not understand critical things about how the
lower levels of Java work because the IDE shielded them from this information.

As soon as I discovered this mistake I immediately switched back to starting
beginners with a Java editor and the command line :-)

As for which editor to use, I recommend using a Java-based editor instead of
something like nano or vim because one is able to pick up a lot of Java-related
information indirectly by using an editor that is written in Java.  The Java
editor that I recommend is JEdit.

Hope this helps :-)

Ted
-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Greg Tassone]

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On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 10:04 -0800, Ted Kosan wrote:
...
> I agree with another poster that eventually you will want to focus your efforts
> on J2SE 5.0 but for people just learning Java you should be fine learning the
> fundamentals on J2SE 1.4.

I agree.  Learn the fundamentals any which way you desire.  Don't worry
too much about which exact platform you are using for starting out.


> > Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> > good choice?
...
> 
> This is where my opionin will usually differ with most people.  My
> recommendation is that Java beginners should start with a Java editor and do
> all of thier development from the command line. The reason for this is that I
> think people do not truly understand how Java works until they understand how
> Java's runtime environemnt works at the commmand line level.

I think there is merit to this opinion.  Using the command line teaches
you many things about the lower levels of a Java runtime that are
normally hidden with an IDE.  It is GOOD that they are generally hidden
when using an IDE, as this generally increases productivity.  However,
IDE's usually are NOT intended for learning (Josh's comments on BlueJ
notwithstanding, as I'm not familiar with the learning-focus of that
IDE, but it sounds interesting).


> As for which editor to use, I recommend using a Java-based editor instead of
> something like nano or vim because one is able to pick up a lot of Java-related
> information indirectly by using an editor that is written in Java.  The Java
> editor that I recommend is JEdit.

Agreed.  With something like JEdit you can even write simple
(Java-based) bean-shell snippets to extend functionality of the editor,
which also can be good as you're learning.

Enjoy!

~ Greg


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Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Stuart Howard]

As you might expect I am running on information overload here ;)

I have emerged well all the IDE and editors suggested [got to love
portage] and will make the choices when I am beyond hello world time,
I am reading  the lecture prepared by Ted lovley work by the way
starts at my level :]

Anyway my supplemental request is book choice and a mailing list to
watch for entry/mid level discussions?
[gentoo-user has taught me more about linux/gentoo than any of the
books I have read]

I see that from Amazon "The Java Tutorial: A Short Course on the
Basics (Java S.)" is due for a new release at the end of this month
and seems a likly choice, however there are more books available than
you can shake a stick at to be honest and a tip would be nice.

stu

ps. All I need to do now is to farm the wife and kids out to a
religious cult and I will have some real time to get started :P


On 26/01/06, Greg Tassone <greg@tassone.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 10:04 -0800, Ted Kosan wrote:
> ...
> > I agree with another poster that eventually you will want to focus your efforts
> > on J2SE 5.0 but for people just learning Java you should be fine learning the
> > fundamentals on J2SE 1.4.
>
> I agree.  Learn the fundamentals any which way you desire.  Don't worry
> too much about which exact platform you are using for starting out.
>
>
> > > Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
> > > good choice?
> ...
> >
> > This is where my opionin will usually differ with most people.  My
> > recommendation is that Java beginners should start with a Java editor and do
> > all of thier development from the command line. The reason for this is that I
> > think people do not truly understand how Java works until they understand how
> > Java's runtime environemnt works at the commmand line level.
>
> I think there is merit to this opinion.  Using the command line teaches
> you many things about the lower levels of a Java runtime that are
> normally hidden with an IDE.  It is GOOD that they are generally hidden
> when using an IDE, as this generally increases productivity.  However,
> IDE's usually are NOT intended for learning (Josh's comments on BlueJ
> notwithstanding, as I'm not familiar with the learning-focus of that
> IDE, but it sounds interesting).
>
>
> > As for which editor to use, I recommend using a Java-based editor instead of
> > something like nano or vim because one is able to pick up a lot of Java-related
> > information indirectly by using an editor that is written in Java.  The Java
> > editor that I recommend is JEdit.
>
> Agreed.  With something like JEdit you can even write simple
> (Java-based) bean-shell snippets to extend functionality of the editor,
> which also can be good as you're learning.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> ~ Greg
>
>
>
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>
>
>


--
"There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand
binary, those who don't"

--Unknown

-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Joshua Nichols]

Stuart Howard wrote:
> As you might expect I am running on information overload here ;)
>
> I have emerged well all the IDE and editors suggested [got to love
> portage] and will make the choices when I am beyond hello world time,
> I am reading  the lecture prepared by Ted lovley work by the way
> starts at my level :]
>
> Anyway my supplemental request is book choice and a mailing list to
> watch for entry/mid level discussions?
> [gentoo-user has taught me more about linux/gentoo than any of the
> books I have read]
>
>   
> I see that from Amazon "The Java Tutorial: A Short Course on the
> Basics (Java S.)" is due for a new release at the end of this month
> and seems a likly choice, however there are more books available than
> you can shake a stick at to be honest and a tip would be nice.
>
>   
"Effective Java" by Joshua Blochs is considered the gospel around my 
workplace. I'd say it's mid-level book, in that you should be somewhat 
familar with Java.

I have also heard that "The Java Programming Language, Fourth Edition" 
by Ken Arnold, James Gosling, and David Holmes is also good, though I 
haven't read it myself yet.

> stu
>
> ps. All I need to do now is to farm the wife and kids out to a
> religious cult and I will have some real time to get started :P
>
>
> On 26/01/06, Greg Tassone <greg@tassone.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 10:04 -0800, Ted Kosan wrote:
>> ...
>>     
>>> I agree with another poster that eventually you will want to focus your efforts
>>> on J2SE 5.0 but for people just learning Java you should be fine learning the
>>> fundamentals on J2SE 1.4.
>>>       
>> I agree.  Learn the fundamentals any which way you desire.  Don't worry
>> too much about which exact platform you are using for starting out.
>>
>>
>>     
>>>> Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
>>>> good choice?
>>>>         
>> ...
>>     
>>> This is where my opionin will usually differ with most people.  My
>>> recommendation is that Java beginners should start with a Java editor and do
>>> all of thier development from the command line. The reason for this is that I
>>> think people do not truly understand how Java works until they understand how
>>> Java's runtime environemnt works at the commmand line level.
>>>       
>> I think there is merit to this opinion.  Using the command line teaches
>> you many things about the lower levels of a Java runtime that are
>> normally hidden with an IDE.  It is GOOD that they are generally hidden
>> when using an IDE, as this generally increases productivity.  However,
>> IDE's usually are NOT intended for learning (Josh's comments on BlueJ
>> notwithstanding, as I'm not familiar with the learning-focus of that
>> IDE, but it sounds interesting).
>>
>>
>>     
>>> As for which editor to use, I recommend using a Java-based editor instead of
>>> something like nano or vim because one is able to pick up a lot of Java-related
>>> information indirectly by using an editor that is written in Java.  The Java
>>> editor that I recommend is JEdit.
>>>       
>> Agreed.  With something like JEdit you can even write simple
>> (Java-based) bean-shell snippets to extend functionality of the editor,
>> which also can be good as you're learning.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> ~ Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iD8DBQBD2RMxaI3pdOrDO40RAqc7AKC1QgzXe4oFAeoaQkTyilTb/o163wCg4WjW
>> fFIZGAaXbPVLKBUY77JXJM4=
>> =dDHV
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>   

-- 
gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Jochen Maes]

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Stuart Howard wrote:

>As you might expect I am running on information overload here ;)
>
>I have emerged well all the IDE and editors suggested [got to love
>portage] and will make the choices when I am beyond hello world time,
>I am reading  the lecture prepared by Ted lovley work by the way
>starts at my level :]
>
>Anyway my supplemental request is book choice and a mailing list to
>watch for entry/mid level discussions?
>[gentoo-user has taught me more about linux/gentoo than any of the
>books I have read]
>
>I see that from Amazon "The Java Tutorial: A Short Course on the
>Basics (Java S.)" is due for a new release at the end of this month
>and seems a likly choice, however there are more books available than
>you can shake a stick at to be honest and a tip would be nice.
>
>  
>
If you really need to learn all from scratch i suggest Bruce Eckels 
book, thinking in Java, it's free download on the web as he released 
most of his book for free in pdf format...
a simple google should fix you up with it.
It will teach you all the basics off OO programming...

>stu
>
>ps. All I need to do now is to farm the wife and kids out to a
>religious cult and I will have some real time to get started :P
>
>
>On 26/01/06, Greg Tassone <greg@tassone.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 10:04 -0800, Ted Kosan wrote:
>>...
>>    
>>
>>>I agree with another poster that eventually you will want to focus your efforts
>>>on J2SE 5.0 but for people just learning Java you should be fine learning the
>>>fundamentals on J2SE 1.4.
>>>      
>>>
>>I agree.  Learn the fundamentals any which way you desire.  Don't worry
>>too much about which exact platform you are using for starting out.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Next up would be an IDE, is Kdevelop good for java or is netbeans a
>>>>good choice?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>...
>>    
>>
>>>This is where my opionin will usually differ with most people.  My
>>>recommendation is that Java beginners should start with a Java editor and do
>>>all of thier development from the command line. The reason for this is that I
>>>think people do not truly understand how Java works until they understand how
>>>Java's runtime environemnt works at the commmand line level.
>>>      
>>>
>>I think there is merit to this opinion.  Using the command line teaches
>>you many things about the lower levels of a Java runtime that are
>>normally hidden with an IDE.  It is GOOD that they are generally hidden
>>when using an IDE, as this generally increases productivity.  However,
>>IDE's usually are NOT intended for learning (Josh's comments on BlueJ
>>notwithstanding, as I'm not familiar with the learning-focus of that
>>IDE, but it sounds interesting).
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>As for which editor to use, I recommend using a Java-based editor instead of
>>>something like nano or vim because one is able to pick up a lot of Java-related
>>>information indirectly by using an editor that is written in Java.  The Java
>>>editor that I recommend is JEdit.
>>>      
>>>
>>Agreed.  With something like JEdit you can even write simple
>>(Java-based) bean-shell snippets to extend functionality of the editor,
>>which also can be good as you're learning.
>>
>>Enjoy!
>>
>>~ Greg
>>
>>
>>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>>iD8DBQBD2RMxaI3pdOrDO40RAqc7AKC1QgzXe4oFAeoaQkTyilTb/o163wCg4WjW
>>fFIZGAaXbPVLKBUY77JXJM4=
>>=dDHV
>>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>--
>"There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand
>binary, those who don't"
>
>--Unknown
>
>  
>


-- 
"Defer no time, delays have dangerous ends"
"Ne humanus crede"

Jochen Maes                     
Gentoo Linux
Gentoo Belgium
http://sejo.be
http://gentoo.be
http://gentoo.org


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Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Chris Woods]

Stuart Howard wrote:
> As you might expect I am running on information overload here ;)

[...]

> Anyway my supplemental request is book choice and a mailing list to
> watch for entry/mid level discussions?

Absolutely the best material you can get both for learning and for 
reference is from Sun, hands-down. http://java.sun.com/tutorial - you 
can also purchase a dead tree version if you're more comfortable with a 
book in your hands. I know a lot of people are.

I haven't followed most of this thread, to be honest, but I'm going to 
give my experience-tuned advice on "how to get started with Java", 
something I did 10 years ago.

Start off with that tutorial and a good text editor and the latest JDK - 
1.5.0_06, I believe. The text editor I personally recommend, unless you 
already have a favorite, is jEdit. 4.2 is in portage, or if you want 
bleeding edge, you can get a 4.3 beta. If you're using jdk1.5 and gnome, 
you can change the look and feel to GTK+, and it will adopt your gnome 
theme.

While an IDE is nice for productivity, I think it's best to start off 
with just the command-line tools (javac in particular) and a text editor 
that gives decent syntax highlighting, code completion, etc.  After 
you're comfortable with how it all works, try a few IDE's - that's 
really the only way you'll find one you like. My personal preference is 
JetBrains' IntelliJ IDEA, but it's not free. Then when something doesn't 
work right in the IDE, or it's producing unexpected results, you'll have 
a better idea of how to track down the problem because you know Java 
without the cushion of the IDE.

Good luck and have fun.

Chris
chris@bitspace.org
http://bitspace.org/
World peace begins with inner peace.

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Re: [gentoo-java] Startup advice

[Roy Wright]

Chris Woods wrote:

> Stuart Howard wrote:
>
>> As you might expect I am running on information overload here ;)
>
>
> [...]
>
>> Anyway my supplemental request is book choice and a mailing list to
>> watch for entry/mid level discussions?
>
>
> [...]

Start on command line, then progress to Ant.  Then learn JUnit.  Throw
in CheckStyle.  Read up on Extreme Programming.  Then you are ready
for your IDE.  I prefer Eclipse for an IDE.

Have fun,
Roy
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