From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EHLjm-0004ZL-TF for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:31:15 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id j8JDOv7i030587; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:24:57 GMT Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j8JDOtkI009794 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:24:56 GMT Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x7so212119nzc for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ZzIUVqumk1O9NCwUW4N1SUuRdet10dsjC5TSEkVHJKe/+LRdA+IVvM/fvc7l/JeFbSdO4uAgm5HPs5k+wB4UVancgu10hg7gDWcbd5cZTNZcHQ0nufQZ/KnzXyKc4o/Bk/B3GQQVNIrmTw7ypi40gQoteqepg9KrP/G0OCVsntw= Received: by 10.54.79.17 with SMTP id c17mr1035610wrb; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.118.2 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51f84ab50509190630e353e0b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:30:32 -0400 From: "Paul J. Wilson" To: gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-installer] educating users In-Reply-To: <1127136243.4197.8.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-installer@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1080_19732872.1127136632042" References: <432DE560.5070200@gentoo.org> <432DF4CB.1050304@gmail.com> <20050919013711.33a6f94f.rane@gentoo.org> <432E39B2.2@gentoo.org> <2e117fdb05091823072437873e@mail.gmail.com> <1127136243.4197.8.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> X-Archives-Salt: e9f6d829-7be3-4d7f-b859-dba572208a82 X-Archives-Hash: 0a261cedb0e587a94ecea0a49962d3db ------=_Part_1080_19732872.1127136632042 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 9/19/05, Chris Gianelloni wrote:=20 >=20 > On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 02:07 -0400, Bryan Quigley wrote: > > I am a noob with gentoo and linux. Are you trying to make it harder > > for me to install gentoo, and make it take more time? >=20 > I think what Andrew is trying to do is curb the people out there that > think that using a graphical installer makes Gentoo any easier to > install, when it does not. >=20 > > gentoo was my first real attempt at linux, and I installed it as I > > read the handbook. I didnt read and master the handbook before > > starting the install. >=20 > You don't have to read and master it, you just have to follow it. The > problem here is stemming from people that are refusing to read the > Handbook, then wondering why they can't get Gentoo installed and are > starting to flood our support channels with questions answered in the > Handbook. >=20 > > If you believe that someone having trouble with gentoo would ask it on > > a list instead of reading the handbook. Then might they just ask the > > questions from the test? >=20 > Exactly. This is the reason why I think any kind of quiz would be > pretty pointless. Perhaps a starting page that tells the user that the > documentation is located in the Handbook and that they should read the > Handbook before asking questions would be good, but anything as > pervasive as a quiz is pretty much wasted time on both the developer's > part and the user's. >=20 > Do we need a copy of the Handbook on the CD for use by the installer? > That shouldn't be a problem and is of minimal size. One other thing > that we will need is information on the installer added to the Handbook, > as right now, a lot of assumptions are made that the users will be able > to translate the command-line options from the Handbook into clicks (or > selections) in the installer front-ends. >=20 > Yes, it is going to take a lot of work. Yes, it is going to suck. Yes, > I recommend trying to find and bribe one of the docs team members into > being an installer docs monkey for a short while. ;] >=20 > -- > Chris Gianelloni > Release Engineering - Strategic Lead > Games - Developer > Gentoo Linux >=20 >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) >=20 > iD8DBQBDLrvykT4lNIS36YERAp98AJwOJJ2r3H3n1toF4NEoyBtFsYC27ACgjzp4 > 8DYlg9zzxDFYaAgYs8BaCoo=3D > =3DZgHg > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >=20 >=20 > ------=_Part_1080_19732872.1127136632042 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 9/19/05, = Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@ge= ntoo.org> wrote:
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 02:07 -040= 0, Bryan Quigley wrote:
> I am a noob with gentoo and linux. &nb= sp;Are you trying to make it harder
> for me to install gentoo, and make it take more time?

I thi= nk what Andrew is trying to do is curb the people out there that
think t= hat using a graphical installer makes Gentoo any easier to
install, when= it does not.

> gentoo was my first real attempt at linux, and I installed it = as I
> read the handbook.  I didnt read and master the hand= book before
> starting the install.

You don't have to read and= master it, you just have to follow it.  The
problem here is stemming from people that are refusing to read the
H= andbook, then wondering why they can't get Gentoo installed and are
star= ting to flood our support channels with questions answered in the
Handbo= ok.

> If you believe that someone having trouble with gentoo would a= sk it on
> a list instead of reading the handbook.   Then m= ight they just ask the
> questions from the test?

Exactly.&nbs= p; This is the reason why I think any kind of quiz would be
pretty pointless.  Perhaps a starting page that tells the use= r that the
documentation is located in the Handbook and that they should= read the
Handbook before asking questions would be good, but anything a= s
pervasive as a quiz is pretty much wasted time on both the developer's
part and the user's.

Do we need a copy of the Handbook on the CD= for use by the installer?
That shouldn't be a problem and is of minimal= size.  One other thing
that we will need is information on th= e installer added to the Handbook,
as right now, a lot of assumptions are made that the users will be able=
to translate the command-line options from the Handbook into clicks (or=
selections) in the installer front-ends.

Yes, it is going to tak= e a lot of work.  Yes, it is going to suck.  Yes,
I recommend trying to find and bribe one of the docs team members into<= br>being an installer docs monkey for a short while.  ;]

-= -
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - De= veloper
Gentoo Linux


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