From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EHVAh-0005Rw-35 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:35:39 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id j8JNTZXK021871; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:29:35 GMT Received: from ryoko.agaffney.org (ppp-70-249-210-46.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [70.249.210.46]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j8JNTYRS023507 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:29:34 GMT Received: from [192.168.0.10] (kagome [192.168.0.10]) by ryoko.agaffney.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86F642412A for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:28:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <432F4AE3.9010300@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:33:55 -0500 From: Andrew Gaffney User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050814) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-installer@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-installer] educating users References: <432DE560.5070200@gentoo.org> <432DF4CB.1050304@gmail.com> <20050919013711.33a6f94f.rane@gentoo.org> <432E39B2.2@gentoo.org> <2e117fdb05091823072437873e@mail.gmail.com> <1127136243.4197.8.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <51f84ab50509190630e353e0b@mail.gmail.com> <2c99c46e05091913412069a40a@mail.gmail.com> <51f84ab505091914344779adb1@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51f84ab505091914344779adb1@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 564c73dd-f231-4f0a-8633-4988ac806df2 X-Archives-Hash: c009b7e49e00348548d1a734a2521f93 Paul J. Wilson wrote: > The way I see it, the problem is not about the gentoo installer, but a > problem of perceptions between the developers and the users. There is a > further division between the "power users" and the "noobs". > > It's easier said than done, but each side should step outside their own > experience. To a developer, "easy" meains opening VI and drawing on > their knowledge of hot keys and bash syntax. To the average user, "easy" > means selecting options from a menu , or not selecting anything at all > to have things turn out as intended. To me, "easy" means following the very clear directions layed out for you in the install guide and being able to use nano. I may be wrong, but I believe my cat can use nano. > Regular, everyday users tend not to have the time to spend on the finter > points of linux and gentoo in particular. If the aim of the gentoo > installer project is to make Gentoo more accessable to these types of > users, then it's not unreasonable to expect these users to reach out That's not the aim. The aim is to make installs *faster* and more automated...not easier. > It's also obvious from the responses that some users do NOT find the > handbook accessable. This can't be simply explained away by lack of > intelligence. Again, what is obvious to some is not obvious to others, > especially those who are not trained to think in technical terms. > Brushing off the questions of every-day users as the work of "noobs" is > a very easy and sloppy thing to do. People who can't follow the handbook are people that can't pay attention long enough to read a complete sentence. If someone can't install Gentoo because of ADD, that's not our problem. > There is a huge disconnect happening here. On the one hand, the Gentoo > front matter seems to state that Gentoo is "all about choices" and goes > on to strongly imply that the distribution can be all things to all > users. There are a sub-set of users who 1. don't find the detail and > fine-point instruction in the manual helpful 2. don't have the time to > manually configure everything or 3. are not computer literate. It's > obvious that there are large numbers of people who want to use gentoo > but whose needs are not being met. I have the impression that the > gentoo-installer project is an attempt to meet the needs of such users. Gentoo is not exactly targeted at *any* of those groups of users. As stated above, that is *not* the intention of the installer. -- Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/ Gentoo Linux Developer Installer Project -- gentoo-installer@gentoo.org mailing list