public inbox for gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Andrew Gaffney <agaffney@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-installer] educating users
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:33:55 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <432F4AE3.9010300@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <51f84ab505091914344779adb1@mail.gmail.com>

Paul J. Wilson wrote:
> The way I see it, the problem is not about the gentoo installer, but a 
> problem of perceptions between the developers and the users. There is a 
> further division between the "power users" and the "noobs".
> 
> It's easier said than done, but each side should step outside their own 
> experience. To a developer, "easy" meains opening VI and drawing on 
> their knowledge of hot keys and bash syntax. To the average user, "easy" 
> means selecting options from a menu , or not selecting anything at all 
> to have things turn out as intended.

To me, "easy" means following the very clear directions layed out for you in the 
install guide and being able to use nano. I may be wrong, but I believe my cat 
can use nano.

> Regular, everyday users tend not to have the time to spend on the finter 
> points of linux and gentoo in particular. If the aim of the gentoo 
> installer project is to make Gentoo more accessable to these types of 
> users, then it's not unreasonable to expect these users to reach out 

That's not the aim. The aim is to make installs *faster* and more 
automated...not easier.

> It's also obvious from the responses that some users do NOT find the 
> handbook accessable. This can't be simply explained away by lack of 
> intelligence. Again, what is obvious to some is not obvious to others, 
> especially those who are not trained to think in technical terms. 
> Brushing off the questions of every-day users as the work of "noobs" is 
> a very easy and sloppy thing to do.

People who can't follow the handbook are people that can't pay attention long 
enough to read a complete sentence. If someone can't install Gentoo because of 
ADD, that's not our problem.

> There is a huge disconnect happening here. On the one hand, the Gentoo 
> front matter seems to state that Gentoo is "all about choices" and goes 
> on to strongly imply that the distribution can be all things to all 
> users. There are a sub-set of users who 1. don't find the detail and 
> fine-point instruction in the manual helpful 2. don't have the time to 
> manually configure everything or 3. are not computer literate. It's 
> obvious that there are large numbers of people who want to use gentoo 
> but whose needs are not being met. I have the impression that the 
> gentoo-installer project is an attempt to meet the needs of such users.

Gentoo is not exactly targeted at *any* of those groups of users. As stated 
above, that is *not* the intention of the installer.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
-- 
gentoo-installer@gentoo.org mailing list



  reply	other threads:[~2005-09-19 23:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-18 22:08 [gentoo-installer] educating users Andrew Gaffney
2005-09-18 22:49 ` Michael Crute
2005-09-18 23:14 ` Zac Medico
2005-09-18 23:37   ` Łukasz Damentko
2005-09-19  0:04     ` Zac Medico
2005-09-19  0:15       ` Łukasz Damentko
2005-09-19  0:51         ` Zac Medico
2005-09-19  4:08     ` Nick Dimiduk
2005-09-19  6:07       ` Bryan Quigley
2005-09-19 13:24         ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-19 13:30           ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-19 20:41             ` Michael Miller
2005-09-19 21:16               ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-20  2:11                 ` Donnie Berkholz
2005-09-20  5:09                   ` mike.gross
2005-09-20 12:02                   ` Erick Michau
2005-09-19 21:34               ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-19 23:33                 ` Andrew Gaffney [this message]
2005-09-20  0:42                   ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-20  6:34                   ` David Marchbanks
2005-09-20  1:32                 ` Zac Medico
2005-09-20 13:30                   ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-20 13:51                     ` Jesse McNelis
2005-09-20 14:17                       ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-20 16:25                       ` Erick Michau
2005-09-20 14:49                         ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-20 14:53                           ` [gentoo-installer] unsubscribe Mr Rayen
2005-09-20 14:57                             ` Benigno B. Junior
2005-09-20 15:09                               ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-20 15:16                                 ` Michael Crute
2005-09-20 15:27                                   ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-20 15:31                                     ` Andrew Gaffney
2005-09-20 15:40                                       ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-20 15:45                                         ` Andrew Gaffney
2005-09-20 15:52                                           ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-20 16:52                                             ` Michael Crute
2005-09-20 17:07                                               ` Paul J. Wilson
2005-09-20 15:43                                   ` Chris Gianelloni

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=432F4AE3.9010300@gentoo.org \
    --to=agaffney@gentoo.org \
    --cc=gentoo-installer@lists.gentoo.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox