[gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[Eric Sammer]

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All:

The new Gentoo installer project is underway. This email should serve as 
a quick rundown of where we're at, what we've done, where we want to go, 
and how we're going to get there.

Infrastructure:

The initial infrastructure for the installer project is just about 
there. We now have a mailing list (if you hadn't noticed), and an 
official channel on IRC (freenode) - #gentoo-installer. As of yet, 
there's no project page, but I'm sure that will come in time. Maybe 
we'll hijack a member of the documentation team to help with that.

Who's Involved:

Currently, we have a number of people, Gentoo devs and non-devs, 
involved or interested in the project. Two of the three installer 
projects have "signed on" to work together and hopefully the third will 
as well. Our two desktop co-leads are also involved in defining features 
and requirements, as well as other Gentoo devs from server, portage 
tools, and other teams. A number of non-developers (and / or soon to be 
developers) are also helping in various ways.

What We're Doing:

You probably know the idea - we're trying to bring together three 
projects and create a complete installer that covers desktop systems as 
well as automated server deployment.

As it stands, we've hashed out a number of requirements and features as 
well as some potentials for the installer. While an official list is not 
complete, here's a very brief (and most certainly INCOMPLETE) list of 
what we have:
	- Pluggable front ends (text, ncurses, gtk, qt, whatever)
	- Pluggable, override-able architecture support (x86, ppc, sparc, etc.)
	- Automated deployment (ala RH's Kickstart or Sun's Jumpstart)
	- No loss (or as absolutely little as possible) of flexibility from the 
manual process.
	- Atomic run of all commands so users can freely experiment with 
options prior to installation.
	- Intelligent defaults.

We have a few documents that cover what is going on. I STRONGLY 
recommend that you read them if you're interested in the project as a 
spectator. If you want to contribute, please consider it required 
reading as it will answer some initial questions that you will have.

http://dev.gentoo.org/~esammer/gentoo_installer_project.txt

What We Need:

We need to do the following...

- Solidify the team, both operational and development, and their roles.
- Get a team of willing testers.
- Get some people willing to do documentation, either from our doc team 
or otherwise.
- Get a code repository going. Since non-devs may (as in "might," not 
"can") participate in actual development, the repository may need to be 
hosted on non-Gentoo servers.
- Decide to what level non-devs should participate (mainly, can they 
commit code)
- Complete high(er) level design documents that all devs agree on.
- Code like the wind.
- Test like the dickens.

Hopefully, this will help get the ball rolling, so to speak. Most of 
this stuff is just rehashed from #gentoo-installer (which, once again, 
we invite you to join), but it should help as a nagging reminder.

No doubt this is a button-pusher of a topic. We ask that all comments be 
constructive and respectful, even if you disagree, as at times we all 
will. ;)

(Oh yea, and please read that doc!)

Regards.
-- 
Eric Sammer
Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[Kurt Lieber]

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On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 11:40:42PM -0500 or thereabouts, Eric Sammer wrote:
> Infrastructure:
> 
> The initial infrastructure for the installer project is just about 
> there. We now have a mailing list (if you hadn't noticed), and an 
> official channel on IRC (freenode) - #gentoo-installer. As of yet, 
> there's no project page, but I'm sure that will come in time. Maybe 
> we'll hijack a member of the documentation team to help with that.

Figure out where you want the directory and I'll be happy to create it.
Looking at our various top level categories, it doesn't really fit cleanly
into any of them.  I'd suggest base as being the closest match.

> - Get a code repository going. Since non-devs may (as in "might," not 
> "can") participate in actual development, the repository may need to be 
> hosted on non-Gentoo servers.

This is something I would object to.  If this is an official Gentoo project
(which I assume it is) that we're going to let official Gentoo users
eventually user (which I assume we are) then we need to ensure that it's
developed on secure infrastructure, etc.

If there are people who want to commit code (and have the requisite skills
to do so) but aren't devs, make them devs.  

> - Decide to what level non-devs should participate (mainly, can they 
> commit code)

I vote no. :)

> - Complete high(er) level design documents that all devs agree on.

Good luck. :)

--kurt

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Re: [gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[Eric Sammer]

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Kurt Lieber wrote:
> Figure out where you want the directory and I'll be happy to create it.
> Looking at our various top level categories, it doesn't really fit cleanly
> into any of them.  I'd suggest base as being the closest match.

This is sticky. I don't have an opinion either way about it as long as 
it's not branded a desktop or server subproject so as to alienate either 
group.

>>- Get a code repository going. Since non-devs may (as in "might," not 
>>"can") participate in actual development, the repository may need to be 
>>hosted on non-Gentoo servers.
> 
> This is something I would object to.  If this is an official Gentoo project
> (which I assume it is) that we're going to let official Gentoo users
> eventually user (which I assume we are) then we need to ensure that it's
> developed on secure infrastructure, etc.

Not a problem. That's why I threw that out as something to discuss. I 
wasn't sure what our policies were on things such as this. Right now, I 
think all those that would be writing code (and therefore need CVS 
commit access) are Gentoo devs (or soon to be).

>>- Decide to what level non-devs should participate (mainly, can they 
>>commit code)
> 
> I vote no. :)

A fair vote. If there is an inroad to them becoming devs, that's fine. I 
just didn't want to see good coders turned away.

>>- Complete high(er) level design documents that all devs agree on.
> 
> Good luck. :)

Heh. Yea, well... we can try. ;)

-- 
Eric Sammer
Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Thursday 29 January 2004 15:07, Eric Sammer wrote:
> Kurt Lieber wrote:
> > Figure out where you want the directory and I'll be happy to create it.
> > Looking at our various top level categories, it doesn't really fit
> > cleanly into any of them.  I'd suggest base as being the closest match.
>
> This is sticky. I don't have an opinion either way about it as long as
> it's not branded a desktop or server subproject so as to alienate either
> group.
>

It probably fits best within the tools toplevel. However the tools toplevel is 
not really active at the moment.

> > This is something I would object to.  If this is an official Gentoo
> > project (which I assume it is) that we're going to let official Gentoo
> > users eventually user (which I assume we are) then we need to ensure that
> > it's developed on secure infrastructure, etc.
>
> Not a problem. That's why I threw that out as something to discuss. I
> wasn't sure what our policies were on things such as this. Right now, I
> think all those that would be writing code (and therefore need CVS
> commit access) are Gentoo devs (or soon to be).

I agree with Kurt here. I don't think it should be a big problem.  Things can 
be committed by others if needed.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net



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Re: [gentoo-installer] New installer project status

[dams]

That's a gerat news, maybe you (+spyderous) could write a project xml page in
the -desktop-research project directory, to sum up all this and make it
trackable?

Even if you're starting a new seperate project, the discussions have emerged
from -research, and I think it's very important that you stick with the rules
we wrote together ( http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/research/manifest.xml
). This will help give credit to the team, thank the effort, and avoid the new
installer project to disapear like so many others have, because lack of written
summary, and too fast development. It'll also proove that the installer team
have organizational capabilities.

So please commit in xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/research a new xml project file
called gentoo-installer.xml (for example), where you list the people that
researched on the topic (in the -research area), the conclusions you made, and
end up with the creation of the new -installer team. There is already a similar
page for gentoo-config tools page.

It's not a matter of ego, l33tness, or clans war. It's about keepig track and
history of the things, and learning together.

Thank you

Eric Sammer <esammer@gentoo.org> said:

> All:
> 
> The new Gentoo installer project is underway. This email should serve as a
> quick rundown of where we're at, what we've done, where we want to go, and how
> we're going to get there.

[...]

> join), but it should help as a nagging reminder.
> 
> No doubt this is a button-pusher of a topic. We ask that all comments be
> constructive and respectful, even if you disagree, as at times we all will. ;)
> 
> (Oh yea, and please read that doc!)
> 
> Regards.
> -- 
> Eric Sammer
> Gentoo Linux
> http://www.gentoo.org
> 

-- 
dams

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