[gentoo-installer] GLI Meeting

[gentoo-installer] GLI Meeting

[Preston Cody]

 Given the recent publicity and progress on FEs (there are still BE
issues), I think we should have a meeting to review our status and see
what needs doing.
My time will become a lot free-er in the coming days.
-Codeman
-- 
Preston Cody
Email: ppcodeman @ psu.edu IM: ppcodeman


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[gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned)]

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Hi,

is anyone (beside of me) working on this subject?

My idea/ambition is to substitute MS-DOS-based (initial) os-setup-procedures
(for x86 systems) by some kind of "gentoo-mini-linux" that ist based on a
current (2.6.9++) linux kernel and a root-filesystem consisting of uClibc,
busybox, udev, hotplug/coldplug, *fsutils, smb/nfs, ...

Installation/Setup should be initiated by PXE (PXEGRUB/PXELINUX) that loads
the kernel and root-filesystem into a ramdisk.
After partitioning of disks either a win32-setup could be started or
a gentoo-installation (GLI?).

I have already tried "gentoo genkernel" and found out that I have to
change a lot/too much...

At the moment I'm using a manual configured 2.6.9-gentoo-r4-kernel
(with lots of modules for Network and Storage access) and a customized
"buildroot" (from Erik Andersen, www.uclibc.org).

I've already managed to add the kernel-modules to the "buildroot"-root_fs,
to load kernel modules (for NICs), to run fdisk, and to mount nfs-volumes
after booting my test machine (DHCP/TFTP -> PXEGRUB -> kernel+initrd -> busybox).

Now for my (open) questions:
  1. "buildroot" obviously does not provide a "fully featured" root-fs for
     kernel-2.6, i. e. with udev, hotplug/coldplug.
     Anyone out there with experience on that?
  2. ntfsutils, smb, ... are not available in current "buildroot".
     Anyone out there that has integrated this into "buildroot" already?
     (or rather compiled/linked against uClibc manually)
  3. "buildroot" uses its own "package management" for downloading and
     compiling of sources.
     Is it possible to benefit from "gentoo-portage" and do (a kind of)
     cross-compiling and linking against uClibc?

- -Axel



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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Andrew Gaffney]

Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is anyone (beside of me) working on this subject?
> 
> My idea/ambition is to substitute MS-DOS-based (initial) os-setup-procedures
> (for x86 systems) by some kind of "gentoo-mini-linux" that ist based on a
> current (2.6.9++) linux kernel and a root-filesystem consisting of uClibc,
> busybox, udev, hotplug/coldplug, *fsutils, smb/nfs, ...
> 
> Installation/Setup should be initiated by PXE (PXEGRUB/PXELINUX) that loads
> the kernel and root-filesystem into a ramdisk.
> After partitioning of disks either a win32-setup could be started or
> a gentoo-installation (GLI?).
> 
> I have already tried "gentoo genkernel" and found out that I have to
> change a lot/too much...
> 
> At the moment I'm using a manual configured 2.6.9-gentoo-r4-kernel
> (with lots of modules for Network and Storage access) and a customized
> "buildroot" (from Erik Andersen, www.uclibc.org).
> 
> I've already managed to add the kernel-modules to the "buildroot"-root_fs,
> to load kernel modules (for NICs), to run fdisk, and to mount nfs-volumes
> after booting my test machine (DHCP/TFTP -> PXEGRUB -> kernel+initrd -> busybox).
> 
> Now for my (open) questions:
>   1. "buildroot" obviously does not provide a "fully featured" root-fs for
>      kernel-2.6, i. e. with udev, hotplug/coldplug.
>      Anyone out there with experience on that?
>   2. ntfsutils, smb, ... are not available in current "buildroot".
>      Anyone out there that has integrated this into "buildroot" already?
>      (or rather compiled/linked against uClibc manually)
>   3. "buildroot" uses its own "package management" for downloading and
>      compiling of sources.
>      Is it possible to benefit from "gentoo-portage" and do (a kind of)
>      cross-compiling and linking against uClibc?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all of this?

-- 
Andrew Gaffney
Gentoo Linux Developer
Installer Project

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned)]

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Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned) wrote:

>> My idea/ambition is to substitute MS-DOS-based (initial)
>> os-setup-procedures
>> (for x86 systems) by some kind of "gentoo-mini-linux" that ist based on a
>> current (2.6.9++) linux kernel and a root-filesystem consisting of
>> uClibc,
>> busybox, udev, hotplug/coldplug, *fsutils, smb/nfs, ...
>>
>> Installation/Setup should be initiated by PXE (PXEGRUB/PXELINUX) that
>> loads
>> the kernel and root-filesystem into a ramdisk.
>> After partitioning of disks either a win32-setup could be started or
>> a gentoo-installation (GLI?).
> 
> 
> What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all of this?
> 

It's all about "introducing" linux into enterprise environments.
Many companies (in Germany) are already using linux to provide
network services (on servers), but only a few (~nobody) are considering
linux as an alternative for the desktop.

Initiating OS-setup from PXE is a typical task for all desktop management
groups that I know, and their current MS-DOS/Win98 network startdisks
will not be able to support all kind of client hardware in the future,
because of missing drivers...

I think there is a (small) chance to introduce linux at this point
(to prevent them from using Windows PXE) and to increase popularity
of linux based solutions.
(A client might regard the first OS it gets in contact with as its mother. :-))

My focus on "gentoo" to build such a system is just because I like it. :-)

Of course: If the only target OS is "gentoo-linux", there is no need for a
separate "mini-linux". Just nfs-boot the LiveCD.

- -Axel
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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Daniel]

It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
the software.
At this time there is no real desktop publishing software for linux,
and im not sure whether SPSS has a linux version. Some companies have
to use programs that their staff are used to, and while I could
probably change their choice in OS because it is really just a
backdrop to their important applications I'd be hanged if I suggested
they changed from using an application they've become familiar with.


On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:50:29 +0100, Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned)
<xl@xlsigned.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> 
> 
> > Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned) wrote:
> 
> >> My idea/ambition is to substitute MS-DOS-based (initial)
> >> os-setup-procedures
> >> (for x86 systems) by some kind of "gentoo-mini-linux" that ist based on a
> >> current (2.6.9++) linux kernel and a root-filesystem consisting of
> >> uClibc,
> >> busybox, udev, hotplug/coldplug, *fsutils, smb/nfs, ...
> >>
> >> Installation/Setup should be initiated by PXE (PXEGRUB/PXELINUX) that
> >> loads
> >> the kernel and root-filesystem into a ramdisk.
> >> After partitioning of disks either a win32-setup could be started or
> >> a gentoo-installation (GLI?).
> >
> >
> > What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all of this?
> >
> 
> It's all about "introducing" linux into enterprise environments.
> Many companies (in Germany) are already using linux to provide
> network services (on servers), but only a few (~nobody) are considering
> linux as an alternative for the desktop.
> 
> Initiating OS-setup from PXE is a typical task for all desktop management
> groups that I know, and their current MS-DOS/Win98 network startdisks
> will not be able to support all kind of client hardware in the future,
> because of missing drivers...
> 
> I think there is a (small) chance to introduce linux at this point
> (to prevent them from using Windows PXE) and to increase popularity
> of linux based solutions.
> (A client might regard the first OS it gets in contact with as its mother. :-))
> 
> My focus on "gentoo" to build such a system is just because I like it. :-)
> 
> Of course: If the only target OS is "gentoo-linux", there is no need for a
> separate "mini-linux". Just nfs-boot the LiveCD.
> 
> - -Axel
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-installer@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 08:18 +1000, Daniel wrote:
> It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
> the software.
> At this time there is no real desktop publishing software for linux,
> and im not sure whether SPSS has a linux version.

Scribus is pretty solid. There were a few annoying features remaining
last time I tried it, but it was definitely getting there. Even
OpenOffice Writer is OK for fairly primitive work (creating flyers and
so forth). Perhaps folks on the gentoo-desktop list would have more
ideas.

As for SPSS, try the gentoo-science list. We're way off-topic for both
of these things on this list.

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Buttchereit, Axel (XLsigned)]

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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 08:18 +1000, Daniel wrote:
> 
>>It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
>>the software.
...
> As for SPSS, try the gentoo-science list. We're way off-topic for both
> of these things on this list.

Yes (off-topic) and I've got help from "gentoo-embedded", i. e. I'm
now running (chroot) a "full uclibc-x86-gentoo-linux".
A very simple shell-script strips my "stage3++" down to about 16M (6M-.gz).
And this already without using "busybox" to substitute /(usr)/(s)bin.
Feeling "well armed" now for an attack on MS-DOS-based (initial/PXE) system setups.

Other's are writing very competitive applications and GLI's roadmap might lead
into a fully featured system management tool...

Good to have the choice!

- -Axel

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[John Davis]

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On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 08:18 +1000, Daniel wrote:
> It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
> the software.
> At this time there is no real desktop publishing software for linux,
> and im not sure whether SPSS has a linux version. Some companies have
> to use programs that their staff are used to, and while I could
> probably change their choice in OS because it is really just a
> backdrop to their important applications I'd be hanged if I suggested
> they changed from using an application they've become familiar with.
> 

SPSS definitely *does not* have a Linux version __grumble__.

Cheers,
//John

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Wednesday 08 December 2004 02:59, John Davis wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 08:18 +1000, Daniel wrote:
> > It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
> > the software.
> > At this time there is no real desktop publishing software for linux,
> > and im not sure whether SPSS has a linux version. Some companies have
> > to use programs that their staff are used to, and while I could
> > probably change their choice in OS because it is really just a
> > backdrop to their important applications I'd be hanged if I suggested
> > they changed from using an application they've become familiar with.
>
> SPSS definitely *does not* have a Linux version __grumble__.

There's some program called pspp 
(http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/pspp.html) that should be a clone of 
spss. It does as far as I know not come with a gui though. I haven't 
evaluated the completeness either.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-installer] gentoo-mini-linux (2.6.X + uClibc + busybox + udev + hotplug/coldplug + *fsutils + smb/nfs+ ...) for system-setup

[Daniel]

I will test PSPP with some data files from this years reports to see
how well it works with them amd of if I recall correctly from the SPSS
12 product launchy thing, the bits i was awake for. They mentioned a
linux backend being available for the window version. So you could
harness the power of another linux computer from the windows app.
We're now right off topic as well.

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:28:02 +0100, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 December 2004 02:59, John Davis wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 08:18 +1000, Daniel wrote:
> > > It isnt the OS that stops people me moving my company to linux, it's
> > > the software.
> > > At this time there is no real desktop publishing software for linux,
> > > and im not sure whether SPSS has a linux version. Some companies have
> > > to use programs that their staff are used to, and while I could
> > > probably change their choice in OS because it is really just a
> > > backdrop to their important applications I'd be hanged if I suggested
> > > they changed from using an application they've become familiar with.
> >
> > SPSS definitely *does not* have a Linux version __grumble__.
> 
> There's some program called pspp
> (http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/pspp.html) that should be a clone of
> spss. It does as far as I know not come with a gui though. I haven't
> evaluated the completeness either.
> 
> Paul
> 
> --
> Paul de Vrieze
> Gentoo Developer
> Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
> 
> 
>

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