[gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

Hello,

I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
working on updating it. Does any know the current status
of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?

This pages seems to imply that it has not been maintained
since 2006/04/20:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/gnap.xml

+
Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?



curiously,
James


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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[shawnzier]

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 11:35:47AM -0400, wireless wrote:
> Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
> under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
> about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?

James,

http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gmn/20080424-newsletter.xml

It looks like it's a summer of code project. Maybe you can email the
mentor on the project and see exactly what their plans are.

Shawn
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

shawnzier@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 11:35:47AM -0400, wireless wrote:
>> Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
>> under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
>> about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?
> 
> James,
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gmn/20080424-newsletter.xml
> 
> It looks like it's a summer of code project. Maybe you can email the
> mentor on the project and see exactly what their plans are.
> 
> Shawn


Yea I saw that Andrey Falko has a summer of code helper. I'm sure they
will announce results when they have something to show. I thought I'd
remembered somebody else saying that they had recently done some work
on GNAP, although I could not locate that thread.  Sometimes it takes
folks a day or two to get around to answering on this list, so I was
just going to wait and see what folks respond with.

If all else fails, I'll ping Andrey
http://afalko.homelinux.net/

but there results will most likely not be available until late summer.

Besides, GNAP may be usable in it's current state with i586. I wish I
could locate that old thread.....

Looking one more time I did find this thread:

GNAP UPDATE 2/26/08  but there is nothing conclusive about using GNAP.
I guess GNAP is dead until the end of the summer (of code)?



James

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Vit Vomacko]

Hi, working on updating gnap will begin in mid-June
~vv
> shawnzier@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 11:35:47AM -0400, wireless wrote:
>>> Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
>>> under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
>>> about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?
>>
>> James,
>>
>> http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gmn/20080424-newsletter.xml
>>
>> It looks like it's a summer of code project. Maybe you can email the
>> mentor on the project and see exactly what their plans are.
>>
>> Shawn
>
>
> Yea I saw that Andrey Falko has a summer of code helper. I'm sure they
> will announce results when they have something to show. I thought I'd
> remembered somebody else saying that they had recently done some work
> on GNAP, although I could not locate that thread.  Sometimes it takes
> folks a day or two to get around to answering on this list, so I was
> just going to wait and see what folks respond with.
>
> If all else fails, I'll ping Andrey
> http://afalko.homelinux.net/
>
> but there results will most likely not be available until late summer.
>
> Besides, GNAP may be usable in it's current state with i586. I wish I
> could locate that old thread.....
>
> Looking one more time I did find this thread:
>
> GNAP UPDATE 2/26/08  but there is nothing conclusive about using GNAP.
> I guess GNAP is dead until the end of the summer (of code)?
>
>
>
> James
>

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen]

On Saturday 10 May 2008, Vit Vomacko wrote:
> Hi, working on updating gnap will begin in mid-June
> ~vv
There's also a small #gentoo-gnap channel on Freenode. If you're patient they 
can probably answer your question.

Locally I have build GNAP cores with Asterisk a few months back but I've been 
too busy with RL to know the current status exactly:-(

>
> > shawnzier@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 11:35:47AM -0400, wireless wrote:
> >>> Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
> >>> under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
> >>> about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?
> >>
> >> James,
> >>
> >> http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gmn/20080424-newsletter.xml
> >>
> >> It looks like it's a summer of code project. Maybe you can email the
> >> mentor on the project and see exactly what their plans are.
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >
> > Yea I saw that Andrey Falko has a summer of code helper. I'm sure they
> > will announce results when they have something to show. I thought I'd
> > remembered somebody else saying that they had recently done some work
> > on GNAP, although I could not locate that thread.  Sometimes it takes
> > folks a day or two to get around to answering on this list, so I was
> > just going to wait and see what folks respond with.
> >
> > If all else fails, I'll ping Andrey
> > http://afalko.homelinux.net/
> >
> > but there results will most likely not be available until late summer.
> >
> > Besides, GNAP may be usable in it's current state with i586. I wish I
> > could locate that old thread.....
> >
> > Looking one more time I did find this thread:
> >
> > GNAP UPDATE 2/26/08  but there is nothing conclusive about using GNAP.
> > I guess GNAP is dead until the end of the summer (of code)?
> >
> >
> >
> > James
-- 
Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
Gentoo Linux Security Team
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Natanael Copa]

On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 11:35 -0400, wireless wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?

You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
for older PC's.

-nc

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

Natanael Copa wrote:

>> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
>> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
>> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
>> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?

> You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
> for older PC's.

Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian derivative:

http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages


Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?


James


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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[matt hull]

> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?

gentoo will support old hardware fine.  i have it running on a  
pentium1 133 MHz, just can not compile on it.

matt
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[01flipstar]

wireless schrieb:
> Natanael Copa wrote:
> 
>>> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
>>> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
>>> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
>>> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
> 
>> You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
>> for older PC's.
> 
> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian derivative:
> 
> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?

Hey,

why not simply role your own?
I'm running a KVM (qemu) System with all the optimization supported by my old like (eeepc) hardware.

- create all the tbz2 you need (on the KVM or real host)
- run genpkgindex
- copy all the files to your webserver
- create a squashfs from your portage tree (<40Mb)
- boot your old system from cd or usb and extract a stage3 file
   - edit the make.conf and make sure to define PORTAGE_BINHOST
   - define an INSTALL_MASK if you like
- delete all files in /usr/portage and mount the squashfs porttree
- finally emerge all the stuff you need (emerge -G bla)

If you are interested in more details Ill write a howto in the next few weeks.

--
flip
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

matt hull wrote:
>> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
> 
> gentoo will support old hardware fine.  i have it running on a pentium1 
> 133 MHz, just can not compile on it.


So you use Distcc, or compile and move over (scp) binaries?

Can you explain how you manage this system, incuding updates
and new software installations?

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[matt hull]

it is mostly an old box to play with.  at the moment i pulled the  
hard drive and put it in another faster pentium3 500 Mhz and chroot.

if that was not an option, i would probably try to have the same  
image on a faster box and just chroot, build bin packages and server  
them up with nfs, then emerge or something.

there are more options depending on what are you are doing.

matt

On May 10, 2008, at 2:15 PM, wireless wrote:

> matt hull wrote:
>>> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
>> gentoo will support old hardware fine.  i have it running on a  
>> pentium1 133 MHz, just can not compile on it.
>
>
> So you use Distcc, or compile and move over (scp) binaries?
>
> Can you explain how you manage this system, incuding updates
> and new software installations?
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

01flipstar@web.de wrote:
> wireless schrieb:
>> Natanael Copa wrote:
>>
>>>> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
>>>> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
>>>> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
>>>> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
>>
>>> You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
>>> for older PC's.
>>
>> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian 
>> derivative:
>>
>> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages 
>>
>>
>>
>> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
> 
> Hey,
> 
> why not simply role your own?
> I'm running a KVM (qemu) System with all the optimization supported by 
> my old like (eeepc) hardware.
> 
> - create all the tbz2 you need (on the KVM or real host)
> - run genpkgindex
> - copy all the files to your webserver
> - create a squashfs from your portage tree (<40Mb)
> - boot your old system from cd or usb and extract a stage3 file
>   - edit the make.conf and make sure to define PORTAGE_BINHOST
>   - define an INSTALL_MASK if you like
> - delete all files in /usr/portage and mount the squashfs porttree
> - finally emerge all the stuff you need (emerge -G bla)
> 
> If you are interested in more details Ill write a howto in the next few 
> weeks.
> 
> -- 
> flip


Well, I usually like to stay closer to a tree that being maintained.

Let me think about it some, and I'll let you know if I going to go
this route. Time is something on short supply for me, at this time.


THX,
James



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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[01flipstar]

wireless schrieb:
> 01flipstar@web.de wrote:
>> wireless schrieb:
>>> Natanael Copa wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
>>>>> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
>>>>> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
>>>>> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
>>>
>>>> You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
>>>> for older PC's.
>>>
>>> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian 
>>> derivative:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> why not simply role your own?
>> I'm running a KVM (qemu) System with all the optimization supported by 
>> my old like (eeepc) hardware.
>>
>> - create all the tbz2 you need (on the KVM or real host)
>> - run genpkgindex
>> - copy all the files to your webserver
>> - create a squashfs from your portage tree (<40Mb)
>> - boot your old system from cd or usb and extract a stage3 file
>>   - edit the make.conf and make sure to define PORTAGE_BINHOST
>>   - define an INSTALL_MASK if you like
>> - delete all files in /usr/portage and mount the squashfs porttree
>> - finally emerge all the stuff you need (emerge -G bla)
>>
>> If you are interested in more details Ill write a howto in the next 
>> few weeks.
>>
>> -- 
>> flip
> 
> 
> Well, I usually like to stay closer to a tree that being maintained.
> 

If you like you can rebuild the squashfs-porttree every day and update your system

emerge --sync && mk_squashfs_tree && emerge -avb system && emerge -avb world && genpkgindex && rsync_tbz2

:-D

Ned was explaining how to use qmerge a few weeks ago so this my also be an option.
But Im not sure how (well) qmerge can handle deps?!

--
flip

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Ned Ludd]

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 11:08 +0200, 01flipstar@web.de wrote:
> wireless schrieb:
> > 01flipstar@web.de wrote:
> >> wireless schrieb:
> >>> Natanael Copa wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
> >>>>> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
> >>>>> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
> >>>>> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
> >>>
> >>>> You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
> >>>> for older PC's.
> >>>
> >>> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian 
> >>> derivative:
> >>>
> >>> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> why not simply role your own?
> >> I'm running a KVM (qemu) System with all the optimization supported by 
> >> my old like (eeepc) hardware.
> >>
> >> - create all the tbz2 you need (on the KVM or real host)
> >> - run genpkgindex
> >> - copy all the files to your webserver
> >> - create a squashfs from your portage tree (<40Mb)
> >> - boot your old system from cd or usb and extract a stage3 file
> >>   - edit the make.conf and make sure to define PORTAGE_BINHOST
> >>   - define an INSTALL_MASK if you like
> >> - delete all files in /usr/portage and mount the squashfs porttree
> >> - finally emerge all the stuff you need (emerge -G bla)
> >>
> >> If you are interested in more details Ill write a howto in the next 
> >> few weeks.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> flip
> > 
> > 
> > Well, I usually like to stay closer to a tree that being maintained.
> > 
> 
> If you like you can rebuild the squashfs-porttree every day and update your system
> 
> emerge --sync && mk_squashfs_tree && emerge -avb system && emerge -avb world && genpkgindex && rsync_tbz2
> 
> :-D
> 
> Ned was explaining how to use qmerge a few weeks ago so this my also be an option.
> But Im not sure how (well) qmerge can handle deps?!


It does not handle deps that well at all. Use the -KOq options when
merging stuff with it. Work out what they might be via -pv

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Natanael Copa]

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 13:56 -0400, wireless wrote:
> Natanael Copa wrote:
> 
> >> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
> >> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
> >> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
> >> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
> 
> > You could also have a look at alpine linux, a gentoo based distro aimed
> > for older PC's.
> 
> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian derivative:

Can you please define "looks more like a Debian derivative"? I know for
sure its based on gentoo.

> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages

apk-tools was inspired by the freebsd's binary package manager.

And yes, Alpine is not designed for compile stuff on your target, even
if the pacakges are build from gentoo portage tree.

> Any other gentoo derivatives out there, aimed at older hardware?
> 
> 
> James
> 
> 

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

Natanael Copa wrote:

>> Alpine does look interesting, but, it looks more like a Debian derivative:
> 
> Can you please define "looks more like a Debian derivative"? I know for
> sure its based on gentoo.
> 
>> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Installing_Alpine#Managing_software_packages
> 
> apk-tools was inspired by the freebsd's binary package manager.
> 

It was not a scientific evaluation. I saw packages and managing 
packages, so since it was Linux based, I assumed Debian....


I took every bit of 5 minutes to look at Alpine, so, if my impressions 
were wrong, it was probably because I expected to quickly find a 
technical document that explains much of these sort of issues.

In the brief time I looked around at Alpine, I did not find technical 
documents that explained the architecture of the (embedded) OS.
Also how does one creates binaries for the distro?

Do you have a url for such reading on Alpine?

> And yes, Alpine is not designed for compile stuff on your target, even
> if the pacakges are build from gentoo portage tree.

This is ok for me, particularly if the choices are many, and the
end result is stable. I'm keen on firewalls, dns servers and terminal
servers as a end result of the embedded OS. Robust operation on
CF based hard drives is a big plus (jffs2 or logFS).


James
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[wireless]

Ned Ludd wrote:

>>> Well, I usually like to stay closer to a tree that being maintained.
>>>
>> If you like you can rebuild the squashfs-porttree every day and update your system
>>
>> emerge --sync && mk_squashfs_tree && emerge -avb system && emerge -avb world && 

genpkgindex && rsync_tbz2
>>
>> :-D
>>
>> Ned was explaining how to use qmerge a few weeks ago so this my also be an option.
>> But Im not sure how (well) qmerge can handle deps?!
> 
> 
> It does not handle deps that well at all. Use the -KOq options when
> merging stuff with it. Work out what they might be via -pv


Well I may go this route. For now, I'm going to research my options.
I will most likely wait until the work on GNAP is completed and I
can evaluate GNAP.

I do appreciated all information posted on this thread, as I continue
to research my options on how best to use the old i586 and k6 hardware
that I maintain for others to use as firewalls, dns servers and 
terminal servers.

Here in Tampa Bay, both Bright house(cable) and Verizon (fios) allow 
multiple static IP addresses, dns services and web services to be 
hosted on home networks. I'm going the multiple IP route myself, but, 
I do not want to use new or expensive hardware for these 
aforementioned servers.

I have dozens of embedded boards. When it is all completed, I hope to
securely connect lots of the various uP, DSP and fpga boards to both 
ethernet and a terminal server, so folks can developed and test code.
It's been a goal for a few years now. Finally, at the end of the 
summer, my (consulting obligations) will be complete and I'll have the
necessary time to build this network for embedded development.


James

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Philipp Riegger]

On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 11:35 -0400, wireless wrote:
> I remember some discussion on GNAP and the fact that some were
> working on updating it. Does any know the current status
> of the efforts to update GNAP and when possible it might
> be suitable (updated) for use on i586 (K6) based hardware?
> 
> This pages seems to imply that it has not been maintained
> since 2006/04/20:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/gnap.xml
> 
> +
> Googling shows lots of discussions related to "summer of code"
> under the moniker "GNAP Love" but nothing I've read talks
> about when it will be update for i586 based older PCs?

We just created a Google Code Repository which we plan to use for all
GNAP related development. There will probably be a roadmap soon. I also
hope there will be a new release by the end of june. I plan to provide
new ebuilds and maybe live ebuilds but i don't know when i get it done.

You might want to join gentoo-gnap@gentoo.org (not listed on teh lists
page, i think, but subscribe-able with the usual procedure).

Philipp

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Petr Podrabsky]

It is nice to see this mail. I am looking forward to try new release.
I am keeping fingers crossed.  :-)

Petr
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] GNAP status

[Vit Vomacko]

Yeah, cool things going on here, looking forward to start coding!
~vv
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