From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaRW-0005TJ-M7 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:50:59 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id k5SDnZQu002671; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:49:35 GMT Received: from mail48.e.nsc.no (mail48.e.nsc.no [193.213.115.48]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5SDnYu6007430 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:49:34 GMT Received: from mail.nor.wtbts.org ([213.234.126.131]) by mail48.nsc.no (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDnYFK003459 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nor.wtbts.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500B53FB25 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.nor.wtbts.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02072-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nc.nor.wtbts.org (unknown [192.168.65.211]) by mail.nor.wtbts.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBE23FAD7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP.... From: Natanael Copa To: gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <20c6f18e0606280628w5d8f3064wcc029c09ea4d4f95@mail.gmail.com> References: <20c6f18e0606270550ld60f95endf619a6b8939aa06@mail.gmail.com> <44A15DC5.30101@gentoo.org> <20c6f18e0606271003g6b0e18c1x7a6e7dfd64295e18@mail.gmail.com> <1151455887.21498.6.camel@localhost> <20c6f18e0606280153h64d1fbc6p8187ae840e6dc2fe@mail.gmail.com> <1151485797.28440.51.camel@localhost> <1151495218.1565.9.camel@localhost> <1151497134.28440.70.camel@localhost> <20c6f18e0606280556p697d4428u51832cd55ada5e47@mail.gmail.com> <1151500532.28440.88.camel@localhost> <20c6f18e0606280628w5d8f3064wcc029c09ea4d4f95@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:33 +0200 Message-Id: <1151502573.28440.99.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at wtbts.no X-Archives-Salt: 9d990d0a-f358-4be0-aeba-05a2f7a61457 X-Archives-Hash: b81e5ab781b9d06fb64e7deab81c6296 On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 14:28 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote: > > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk. > > I need the disk for p2p temp files... But the idea of having all the > software in ram is very appealing... I have been playing with the thought of a hybrid. You load all runtimes (binary executables) into RAM and run them from RAM. But you mount a /var partition on disk (maybe an encrypted partition?). You have your software on readonly cdrom, your configuration on floppy/usb and your data (/var) on disk, mounted as noexec. > Also, the usb ports come from a > pci card that i bought so i think (never tested it) that it won't boot > from usb, only floppy. There are floppy images on the iso image for booting from both cdrom and usb. usb.flp has drivers needed to load the system from usb. > >They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its big) > > I don't mind, i still have space :) I want to save space but dont expect to reboot so often. We are solving different problems. :) > But i still have a problem: my ADSL modem is USB, and when i boot the > pc the modem requires a firmware to be downloaded into it. Do you have the firmware (and drivers) in gentoo portage? what ebuilds? > The normal > baselayout doesn't do that (or the pc takes too long and the modem > times out or maybe a bug??) in due time, so it's a question that i > have to cover, nevertheless, i'll try your baselayout. > > Do i have to install anything besides the source package? busybox should be enough. > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here: > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz > > > > Thanks!! > > > > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa : > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 13:56 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote: > > > What about a bootchart? Is there one available? > > > > no sorry. > > > > > My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm > > > making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build > > > host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom... > > > :( > > > > Does it boot from usb? > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/usbdrive/ > > > > Does it boot from floppy? there are floppy images on the iso that will > > load the kernel from floppy, cdrom drivers and then load the rest from > > cdrom. > > > > > (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at > > > gentoo-wiki. :) ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed. > > > I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good > > > results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot > > > time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead... > > > > They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its > > big) > > > > Might be that its fast enough for you if you dont need the > > coldplugging. > > > > > In the mean time, what you want to say with "But its designed to load > > > binary packages to ram > > > during boot, LEAF style." ? > > > > It means that is pulls in runtime packages during boot to a tmpfs. All > > runtimes (binary pacakges) are loaded into ram during boot instead of > > the classical livecd approch where you mount a squashfs or uninonfs on a > > cdrom. > > > > The drawback is long boot times (you need to install all your packages > > every time you boot) > > > > The benefit is you prevent delays caused by cdrom spinning up > > (everything is in ram so responsetimes should even be faster than from > > disk) and you can do (security) updates without rebooting. > > > > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa : > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote: > > > > > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so > > > > > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on > > > > > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too > > > > > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error > > > > > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's > > > > > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that > > > > > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does not depend on bash? > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > Works with ash? :) > > > > > > > > yes :) > > > > > > > > or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like > > > > 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release > > > > of busybox so I'll drop dash) > > > > > > > > > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that > > > > > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild? > > > > > > > > I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram > > > > during boot, LEAF style. > > > > > > > > rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/ > > > > > > > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here: > > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz > > > > > > > > I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big > > > > difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are > > > > executed. > > > > > > > > I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing: > > > > > > > > if [ expr && expr ] ... > > > > > > > > with: > > > > > > > > if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ... > > > > > > > > If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish, > > > > it would be great. > > > > > > > > If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere. > > > > > > > > If you want to see it in action, try: > > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso > > > > > > > > Its 125Mb > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > > > > -- > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > > -- > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list > -- gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list