[gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

Hi!

I have an old pc that i want to use to be my router and firewall for
my home lan. I have an USB ADSL modem, one ethernet interface and want
to deploy a dhcp server, dns, share the ADSL internet connection and
(possibly) PoPToP. I also want the system to be the smallest possible.
By now i have a small system installed that occupies a couple of
hundred megs (still with gcc, glibc) that can use the modem. No luck
with dns and dhcp yet.

Can GNAP be suited to my purposes? I want to boot from hard-disk...


Thanks for the replies!!
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Thierry Carrez]

Marcelo Coelho wrote:

> I have an old pc that i want to use to be my router and firewall for
> my home lan. I have an USB ADSL modem, one ethernet interface and want
> to deploy a dhcp server, dns, share the ADSL internet connection and
> (possibly) PoPToP. I also want the system to be the smallest possible.
> By now i have a small system installed that occupies a couple of
> hundred megs (still with gcc, glibc) that can use the modem. No luck
> with dns and dhcp yet.
> 
> Can GNAP be suited to my purposes? I want to boot from hard-disk...

GNAP can be used for that purpose, though you might have difficulties
with the USB ADSL modem. Since you want to run from harddisk, there
might be other solutions out there better suited for that job (small
footprint distros).

-- 
Koon
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

>though you might have difficulties with the USB ADSL modem.

That's why i sent the e-mail to this mailing list.

What if i compiled the system in another pc? Would gnat give a easy to
use method to update a tarball, or something similar, to update the
system at the old pc?

BTW, what are differences between normal baselayout and the embedded
one? Does the network (for ADSL) configuration part work in a similar
way?

Thanks for the help



2006/6/27, Thierry Carrez <koon@gentoo.org>:
> Marcelo Coelho wrote:
>
> > I have an old pc that i want to use to be my router and firewall for
> > my home lan. I have an USB ADSL modem, one ethernet interface and want
> > to deploy a dhcp server, dns, share the ADSL internet connection and
> > (possibly) PoPToP. I also want the system to be the smallest possible.
> > By now i have a small system installed that occupies a couple of
> > hundred megs (still with gcc, glibc) that can use the modem. No luck
> > with dns and dhcp yet.
> >
> > Can GNAP be suited to my purposes? I want to boot from hard-disk...
>
> GNAP can be used for that purpose, though you might have difficulties
> with the USB ADSL modem. Since you want to run from harddisk, there
> might be other solutions out there better suited for that job (small
> footprint distros).
>
> --
> Koon
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Ned Ludd]

On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 18:03 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> >though you might have difficulties with the USB ADSL modem.
> 
> That's why i sent the e-mail to this mailing list.
> 
> What if i compiled the system in another pc? Would gnat give a easy to
> use method to update a tarball, or something similar, to update the
> system at the old pc?
> 
> BTW, what are differences between normal baselayout and the embedded
> one? 

The embedded one aka baselayout-lite is pretty much for busybox 
read-only fs setups.

> Does the network (for ADSL) configuration part work in a similar
> way?

no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so 
ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on 
your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.

-- 
Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Linux

-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

> no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.

Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
easier to make my init scripts or use initng.

Nevertheless, thanks for your help!!



2006/6/28, Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org>:
> On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 18:03 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > >though you might have difficulties with the USB ADSL modem.
> >
> > That's why i sent the e-mail to this mailing list.
> >
> > What if i compiled the system in another pc? Would gnat give a easy to
> > use method to update a tarball, or something similar, to update the
> > system at the old pc?
> >
> > BTW, what are differences between normal baselayout and the embedded
> > one?
>
> The embedded one aka baselayout-lite is pretty much for busybox
> read-only fs setups.
>
> > Does the network (for ADSL) configuration part work in a similar
> > way?
>
> no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
>
> --
> Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org>
> Gentoo Linux
>
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> 
> Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> easier to make my init scripts or use initng.

I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources.



-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Ned Ludd]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > 
> > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> 
> I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> 
> Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources


Does not depend on bash? Works with ash? :)

If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that 
direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?

-- 
Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Linux

-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > >
> > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> >
> > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> >
> > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> 
> 
> Does not depend on bash?

no

> Works with ash? :)

yes :)

or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
of busybox so I'll drop dash)

> If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?

I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
during boot, LEAF style.

rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/

You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz

I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
executed.

I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:

  if [ expr && expr ] ...

with:

 if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...

If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
it would be great.

If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.

If you want to see it in action, try:
http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso

Its 125Mb


-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

What about a bootchart? Is there one available?

My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm
making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build
host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom...
:(     (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at
gentoo-wiki.   :)   ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed.
I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good
results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot
time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead...

In the mean time, what you want to say with  "But its designed to load
binary packages to ram
during boot, LEAF style." ?



Thanks!




2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > > >
> > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> > >
> > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> >
> >
> > Does not depend on bash?
>
> no
>
> > Works with ash? :)
>
> yes :)
>
> or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
> 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
> of busybox so I'll drop dash)
>
> > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?
>
> I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
> during boot, LEAF style.
>
> rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/
>
> You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
>
> I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
> difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
> executed.
>
> I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:
>
>   if [ expr && expr ] ...
>
> with:
>
>  if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...
>
> If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
> it would be great.
>
> If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.
>
> If you want to see it in action, try:
> http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
>
> Its 125Mb
>
>
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 13:56 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> What about a bootchart? Is there one available?

no sorry.

> My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm
> making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build
> host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom...
> :(     

Does it boot from usb?
http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/usbdrive/

Does it boot from floppy? there are floppy images on the iso that will
load the kernel from floppy, cdrom drivers and then load the rest from
cdrom.

> (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at
> gentoo-wiki.   :)   ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed.
> I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good
> results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot
> time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead...

They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its
big)

Might be that its fast enough for you if you dont need the
coldplugging. 

> In the mean time, what you want to say with  "But its designed to load
> binary packages to ram
> during boot, LEAF style." ?

It means that is pulls in runtime packages during boot to a tmpfs. All
runtimes (binary pacakges) are loaded into ram during boot instead of
the classical livecd approch where you mount a squashfs or uninonfs on a
cdrom.

The drawback is long boot times (you need to install all your packages
every time you boot)

The benefit is you prevent delays caused by cdrom spinning up
(everything is in ram so responsetimes should even be faster than from
disk) and you can do (security) updates without rebooting.

Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> > > >
> > > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> > > >
> > > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> > >
> > >
> > > Does not depend on bash?
> >
> > no
> >
> > > Works with ash? :)
> >
> > yes :)
> >
> > or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
> > 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
> > of busybox so I'll drop dash)
> >
> > > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> > > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?
> >
> > I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
> > during boot, LEAF style.
> >
> > rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/
> >
> > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> >
> > I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
> > difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
> > executed.
> >
> > I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:
> >
> >   if [ expr && expr ] ...
> >
> > with:
> >
> >  if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...
> >
> > If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
> > it would be great.
> >
> > If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.
> >
> > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> >
> > Its 125Mb
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

> Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.

I need the disk for p2p temp files... But the idea of having all the
software in ram is very appealing... Also, the usb ports come from a
pci card that i bought so i think (never tested it) that it won't boot
from usb, only floppy.


>They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its big)

I don't mind, i still have space :)
But i still have a problem: my ADSL modem is USB, and when i boot the
pc the modem requires a firmware to be downloaded into it. The normal
baselayout doesn't do that (or the pc takes too long and the modem
times out or maybe a bug??) in due time, so it's a question that i
have to cover, nevertheless, i'll try your baselayout.

Do i have to install anything besides the source package?

> You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz



Thanks!!



2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 13:56 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > What about a bootchart? Is there one available?
>
> no sorry.
>
> > My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm
> > making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build
> > host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom...
> > :(
>
> Does it boot from usb?
> http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/usbdrive/
>
> Does it boot from floppy? there are floppy images on the iso that will
> load the kernel from floppy, cdrom drivers and then load the rest from
> cdrom.
>
> > (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at
> > gentoo-wiki.   :)   ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed.
> > I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good
> > results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot
> > time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead...
>
> They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its
> big)
>
> Might be that its fast enough for you if you dont need the
> coldplugging.
>
> > In the mean time, what you want to say with  "But its designed to load
> > binary packages to ram
> > during boot, LEAF style." ?
>
> It means that is pulls in runtime packages during boot to a tmpfs. All
> runtimes (binary pacakges) are loaded into ram during boot instead of
> the classical livecd approch where you mount a squashfs or uninonfs on a
> cdrom.
>
> The drawback is long boot times (you need to install all your packages
> every time you boot)
>
> The benefit is you prevent delays caused by cdrom spinning up
> (everything is in ram so responsetimes should even be faster than from
> disk) and you can do (security) updates without rebooting.
>
> Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.
>
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > > > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does not depend on bash?
> > >
> > > no
> > >
> > > > Works with ash? :)
> > >
> > > yes :)
> > >
> > > or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
> > > 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
> > > of busybox so I'll drop dash)
> > >
> > > > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> > > > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?
> > >
> > > I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
> > > during boot, LEAF style.
> > >
> > > rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/
> > >
> > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> > >
> > > I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
> > > difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
> > > executed.
> > >
> > > I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:
> > >
> > >   if [ expr && expr ] ...
> > >
> > > with:
> > >
> > >  if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...
> > >
> > > If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
> > > it would be great.
> > >
> > > If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.
> > >
> > > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> > >
> > > Its 125Mb
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
>
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
-- 
gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 14:28 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.
> 
> I need the disk for p2p temp files... But the idea of having all the
> software in ram is very appealing... 

I have been playing with the thought of a hybrid. You load all runtimes
(binary executables) into RAM and run them from RAM. But you mount
a /var partition on disk (maybe an encrypted partition?). You have your
software on readonly cdrom, your configuration on floppy/usb and your
data (/var) on disk, mounted as noexec.

> Also, the usb ports come from a
> pci card that i bought so i think (never tested it) that it won't boot
> from usb, only floppy.

There are floppy images on the iso image for booting from both cdrom and
usb. usb.flp has drivers needed to load the system from usb.

> >They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its big)
> 
> I don't mind, i still have space :)

I want to save space but dont expect to reboot so often. We are solving
different problems. :)

> But i still have a problem: my ADSL modem is USB, and when i boot the
> pc the modem requires a firmware to be downloaded into it. 

Do you have the firmware (and drivers) in gentoo portage? what ebuilds?

> The normal
> baselayout doesn't do that (or the pc takes too long and the modem
> times out or maybe a bug??) in due time, so it's a question that i
> have to cover, nevertheless, i'll try your baselayout.
> 
> Do i have to install anything besides the source package?

busybox should be enough.

> > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 13:56 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > What about a bootchart? Is there one available?
> >
> > no sorry.
> >
> > > My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm
> > > making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build
> > > host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom...
> > > :(
> >
> > Does it boot from usb?
> > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/usbdrive/
> >
> > Does it boot from floppy? there are floppy images on the iso that will
> > load the kernel from floppy, cdrom drivers and then load the rest from
> > cdrom.
> >
> > > (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at
> > > gentoo-wiki.   :)   ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed.
> > > I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good
> > > results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot
> > > time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead...
> >
> > They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its
> > big)
> >
> > Might be that its fast enough for you if you dont need the
> > coldplugging.
> >
> > > In the mean time, what you want to say with  "But its designed to load
> > > binary packages to ram
> > > during boot, LEAF style." ?
> >
> > It means that is pulls in runtime packages during boot to a tmpfs. All
> > runtimes (binary pacakges) are loaded into ram during boot instead of
> > the classical livecd approch where you mount a squashfs or uninonfs on a
> > cdrom.
> >
> > The drawback is long boot times (you need to install all your packages
> > every time you boot)
> >
> > The benefit is you prevent delays caused by cdrom spinning up
> > (everything is in ram so responsetimes should even be faster than from
> > disk) and you can do (security) updates without rebooting.
> >
> > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > > > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > > > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > > > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > > > > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Does not depend on bash?
> > > >
> > > > no
> > > >
> > > > > Works with ash? :)
> > > >
> > > > yes :)
> > > >
> > > > or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
> > > > 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
> > > > of busybox so I'll drop dash)
> > > >
> > > > > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> > > > > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?
> > > >
> > > > I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
> > > > during boot, LEAF style.
> > > >
> > > > rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/
> > > >
> > > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> > > >
> > > > I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
> > > > difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
> > > > executed.
> > > >
> > > > I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:
> > > >
> > > >   if [ expr && expr ] ...
> > > >
> > > > with:
> > > >
> > > >  if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...
> > > >
> > > > If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
> > > > it would be great.
> > > >
> > > > If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.
> > > >
> > > > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> > > >
> > > > Its 125Mb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

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Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

> I have been playing with the thought of a hybrid (...) mounted as noexec.

That, i think, is a great idea. I'd only prefer to have the config
files on disk (read-only) also.


> I want to save space but dont expect to reboot so often. We are solving
> different problems. :)

Yap!


> Do you have the firmware (and drivers) in gentoo portage? what ebuilds?

It works fine if the system is working for a while after boot up.
Ebuilds required are:
hotplug; ueagle-atm and the ADSL and ppp related: br2684ctl, ....


> busybox should be enough.

Then maybe i won't play with it this night, but maybe one of these
days. Have to learn how-to play with busybox first...  :)



Thanks for the help!



2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 14:28 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.
> >
> > I need the disk for p2p temp files... But the idea of having all the
> > software in ram is very appealing...
>
> I have been playing with the thought of a hybrid. You load all runtimes
> (binary executables) into RAM and run them from RAM. But you mount
> a /var partition on disk (maybe an encrypted partition?). You have your
> software on readonly cdrom, your configuration on floppy/usb and your
> data (/var) on disk, mounted as noexec.
>
> > Also, the usb ports come from a
> > pci card that i bought so i think (never tested it) that it won't boot
> > from usb, only floppy.
>
> There are floppy images on the iso image for booting from both cdrom and
> usb. usb.flp has drivers needed to load the system from usb.
>
> > >They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its big)
> >
> > I don't mind, i still have space :)
>
> I want to save space but dont expect to reboot so often. We are solving
> different problems. :)
>
> > But i still have a problem: my ADSL modem is USB, and when i boot the
> > pc the modem requires a firmware to be downloaded into it.
>
> Do you have the firmware (and drivers) in gentoo portage? what ebuilds?
>
> > The normal
> > baselayout doesn't do that (or the pc takes too long and the modem
> > times out or maybe a bug??) in due time, so it's a question that i
> > have to cover, nevertheless, i'll try your baselayout.
> >
> > Do i have to install anything besides the source package?
>
> busybox should be enough.
>
> > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> >
> >
> > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 13:56 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > What about a bootchart? Is there one available?
> > >
> > > no sorry.
> > >
> > > > My system is a normal stripped down gentoo install (for now). I'm
> > > > making some scripts to make the build process automatic in a build
> > > > host and create a tarball with it. My pc doesn't boot from cd-rom...
> > > > :(
> > >
> > > Does it boot from usb?
> > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/usbdrive/
> > >
> > > Does it boot from floppy? there are floppy images on the iso that will
> > > load the kernel from floppy, cdrom drivers and then load the rest from
> > > cdrom.
> > >
> > > > (When i'm satisfied with the results i'll post an how-to at
> > > > gentoo-wiki.   :)   ). So what i want is stability and boot up speed.
> > > > I don't test initng for a while, and when i did i didn't had good
> > > > results, but for what i want it _may_ be good enough, but if the boot
> > > > time is similar to your baselayout, i'll use it instead...
> > >
> > > They are slow. For fast boots, i'd try to make initng work. (but its
> > > big)
> > >
> > > Might be that its fast enough for you if you dont need the
> > > coldplugging.
> > >
> > > > In the mean time, what you want to say with  "But its designed to load
> > > > binary packages to ram
> > > > during boot, LEAF style." ?
> > >
> > > It means that is pulls in runtime packages during boot to a tmpfs. All
> > > runtimes (binary pacakges) are loaded into ram during boot instead of
> > > the classical livecd approch where you mount a squashfs or uninonfs on a
> > > cdrom.
> > >
> > > The drawback is long boot times (you need to install all your packages
> > > every time you boot)
> > >
> > > The benefit is you prevent delays caused by cdrom spinning up
> > > (everything is in ram so responsetimes should even be faster than from
> > > disk) and you can do (security) updates without rebooting.
> > >
> > > Its designed for routers, firewalls, small servers without harddisk.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 07:46 -0400, Ned Ludd wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 11:09 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 09:53 +0100, Marcelo Coelho wrote:
> > > > > > > > > no not at all. the baselayout-lite one does not depend on bash what so
> > > > > > > > > ever and includes pretty much no init/conf scripts. You get to hack on
> > > > > > > > > your own init scripts, which is a trivial task.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, i have to use a different baselayout. The boot time is far too
> > > > > > > > long to be acceptable and there is a problem with hotplug (an error
> > > > > > > > appears that the firmware isn't available). But i don't know if it's
> > > > > > > > easier to make my init scripts or use initng.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have made a baselyaout with a stripped down version of runscript that
> > > > > > > will run the many init.d script from gentoo out of the box.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send you the sources
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does not depend on bash?
> > > > >
> > > > > no
> > > > >
> > > > > > Works with ash? :)
> > > > >
> > > > > yes :)
> > > > >
> > > > > or... I'm actually using dash currently because coldplugging takes like
> > > > > 3 minutes with ash and 5 seconds with dash. (its fixed in next release
> > > > > of busybox so I'll drop dash)
> > > > >
> > > > > > If so I think we would all be interested in moving fwd in that
> > > > > > direction. Feel like putting together an updated baselayout-lite ebuild?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have one already. But its designed to load binary packages to ram
> > > > > during boot, LEAF style.
> > > > >
> > > > > rsync://tanael.org/alpine-portage/sys-apps/baselayout-alpine/
> > > > >
> > > > > You can probably reuse parts of it. The source package is here:
> > > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/baselayout-alpine/baselayout-alpine-0.9.6.tar.gz
> > > > >
> > > > > I kind of immitate runlevels, (using rc0.d, rc1.d etc) but the big
> > > > > difference from normal sysv is that *all* runlevels or "boot stages" are
> > > > > executed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had to patch some of the init.d scripts. Typically it was replacing:
> > > > >
> > > > >   if [ expr && expr ] ...
> > > > >
> > > > > with:
> > > > >
> > > > >  if [ expr ] && [ expr ] ...
> > > > >
> > > > > If we could get the init.d script writers to try to not be too bashish,
> > > > > it would be great.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is interrest I could dump my patches somwhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > > > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> > > > >
> > > > > Its 125Mb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
>
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Philippe Clérié]

On Wednesday 28 June 2006 08:18, Natanael Copa wrote:
>
> If you want to see it in action, try:
> http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
>
> Its 125Mb

Isn't that a bit large for an 'embedded' distribution? Or does it include all 
the packages?

I'd planned to look at it during the week-end.

Philippe
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 16:55 -0400, Philippe Clérié wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 June 2006 08:18, Natanael Copa wrote:
> >
> > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> >
> > Its 125Mb
> 
> Isn't that a bit large for an 'embedded' distribution? 

ouch.. you got me... :-)

> Or does it include all
> the packages?

yes its all the packages. and all the drivers. You boot on the iso, then
you just install what you need into ram.

apk_add bind && /etc/init.d/named start

You can do pretty much of an old pentium with 64 MB ram.

> I'd planned to look at it during the week-end.

Cool. Its only a 2 Mbit line so be patient.

Look at http://alpinelinux.org for the basic concept and some thin
documentation.

and feel free to help documenting ;)

> Philippe
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-embedded] ADSL router + firewall + PoPToP....

[Marcelo Coelho]

Hi!


I've been testing a few scripts i've wrote to be able to automatically
update the software for this router, but, i've realised that at the
end i have a full compilation system, and what i want is a minimal
system, only with the servers i want and a small set of applications
that i need on this pc.

So, can i use my desktop pc to compile the software i want and this
way populate an empty set of the basic directories of the linux
system? What tools can i use to do that?


Thanks for the help!




2006/6/28, Natanael Copa <natanael.copa@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 16:55 -0400, Philippe Clérié wrote:
> > On Wednesday 28 June 2006 08:18, Natanael Copa wrote:
> > >
> > > If you want to see it in action, try:
> > > http://tanael.org/alpine/v1.1/iso/alpine-1.1.3_beta8-060622-i386.iso
> > >
> > > Its 125Mb
> >
> > Isn't that a bit large for an 'embedded' distribution?
>
> ouch.. you got me... :-)
>
> > Or does it include all
> > the packages?
>
> yes its all the packages. and all the drivers. You boot on the iso, then
> you just install what you need into ram.
>
> apk_add bind && /etc/init.d/named start
>
> You can do pretty much of an old pentium with 64 MB ram.
>
> > I'd planned to look at it during the week-end.
>
> Cool. Its only a 2 Mbit line so be patient.
>
> Look at http://alpinelinux.org for the basic concept and some thin
> documentation.
>
> and feel free to help documenting ;)
>
> > Philippe
> > --
> > gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
>
> --
> gentoo-embedded@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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