[gentoo-doc] Date problem

[gentoo-doc] Date problem

[José Fournier]

Hi everybody,

I am new on your list and I am trying to update the French handbook but 
I feel uncomfortable with some aspects in the translation/publication 
process. I take an example to illustrate my point.

Consider the file /doc/en/handbook/hb-install-x86+amd64-medium.xml.

According to 
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/doc/en/, 
the last EN version committed is 1.28,  committed 3 months ago.
It is also the one I translated and that Sven nicely committed for me a 
few days ago. Till now, everything seems OK.

Nevertheless, going to the Gentoo site and reading the page I can see : 
"Page updated on Feb 11, 2013" and for the French counterpart "Last 
update 1Nov 12, 2012, an original version dated Feb 11, 2013 exist (in 
French on the page of course).

My question is why this discrepancy ? The files are the same, the 
version and date tags are identical,  but the French user is made 
uncomfortable, thinking what he is reading is out of date !
If something newer exists somewhere, not already committed, there should 
be the same warning on both pages. Isn't it ? What seems very important 
to me, is that the French ( or any non English) reader is made aware 
that the French (non English) and English versions of the text match 
perfectly, releasing him/she from any doubt. Is there something I missed ?



Thank you in advance for explanation

Best regards

José

Re: [gentoo-doc] Date problem

[Tobias Heinlein]

Hi,

On 27.02.2013 07:26, José Fournier wrote:
> My question is why this discrepancy ? The files are the same, the
> version and date tags are identical  [..]

Yes, the version and date tags of the file you mentioned
(hb-install-x86+amd64-medium.xml) are identical. But if you append
"&passthru" to the URL, e.g. :

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?part=1&chap=2&passthru

you can see that there are other files involved as well. The XML code
you get there is from doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml which has
<date>2013-02-11</date>. That's the date the warning talks about.

You get the warning because doc/fr/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml wasn't
updated yet: It has <date>2010-07-19</date>. However, the date displayed
on the french webpage is indeed the date from
doc/fr/handbook/hb-install-x86+amd64-medium.xml. I suppose the date that
appears on the rendered page is the newest one of the dates of all the
files that are involved, thus ensuring that *every* part is updated.

Regards,
Tobias

Re: [gentoo-doc] Date problem

[José Fournier]

On 02/27/13 14:42, Tobias Heinlein wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 27.02.2013 07:26, José Fournier wrote:
>> My question is why this discrepancy ? The files are the same, the
>> version and date tags are identical  [..]
>
> Yes, the version and date tags of the file you mentioned
> (hb-install-x86+amd64-medium.xml) are identical. But if you append
> "&passthru" to the URL, e.g. :
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?part=1&chap=2&passthru 
>
>
> you can see that there are other files involved as well. The XML code
> you get there is from doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml which has
> <date>2013-02-11</date>. That's the date the warning talks about.
>
> You get the warning because doc/fr/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml wasn't
> updated yet: It has <date>2010-07-19</date>. However, the date displayed
> on the french webpage is indeed the date from
> doc/fr/handbook/hb-install-x86+amd64-medium.xml. I suppose the date that
> appears on the rendered page is the newest one of the dates of all the
> files that are involved, thus ensuring that *every* part is updated.
>
> Regards,
> Tobias
>
>
Hi Tobias,

Thank you very much for answering.
If I understand well what you are saying the warning doesn't work on a 
per page basis, but rather on a per book basis.
Despite this I still have trouble understanding the strangeness of the 
dates that appear even on my local copy where a larger amount of file is 
updated (including doc/fr/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml). I think that 
with time I will grasp the mechanism better thanks to your remark.

Whatever it is, this seems to mean that, from the user point of view, it 
is impossible to trust a translated page, even important, as long as,  a 
trivial detail on one page of all the book is not translated. Rather 
difficult, if my understanding is good,  for  a translator to convey 
confidence to his readers !

Regards

José

[gentoo-doc] Beginner needs help

[José Fournier]

Hi,

Up to now I have updated the translation of files that were already 
committed both sides (original and translation). Using gorg on a 
checkout of the CVS provides a very easy way to see the English file and 
the translated file side by side in a browser. This way one can check 
the textual aspect of the document as well as its rendering (the tags).
Now I come to a file which original only exists. Copying it into the 
equivalent folder of the target language doesn't suffice to make it 
appear in the browser. The only thing that is rendered is "cannot 
convert nil into string". I guess the file has to be committed first to 
be viewable in the browser. But I have no right to do so at the moment.
My question is how to do this locally in order to have gorg render it 
normally ?

I hope my question is not too stupid and that the answer is not obvious 
in the GDP documentation.

Thanks in advance for help

José

Re: [gentoo-doc] Beginner needs help

[José Fournier]

Hi,

I think I have found a solution to my problem. In fact copying the 
original file from EN to FR folder and then translating works. The only 
trouble I had was that the link to the file (chapter) was not yet 
present in the master document /doc/fr/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml.
We have something to learn every day .

Now everything renders correctly in the browser.


On 02/28/13 18:47, José Fournier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Up to now I have updated the translation of files that were already 
> committed both sides (original and translation). Using gorg on a 
> checkout of the CVS provides a very easy way to see the English file 
> and the translated file side by side in a browser. This way one can 
> check the textual aspect of the document as well as its rendering (the 
> tags).
> Now I come to a file which original only exists. Copying it into the 
> equivalent folder of the target language doesn't suffice to make it 
> appear in the browser. The only thing that is rendered is "cannot 
> convert nil into string". I guess the file has to be committed first 
> to be viewable in the browser. But I have no right to do so at the 
> moment.
> My question is how to do this locally in order to have gorg render it 
> normally ?
>
> I hope my question is not too stupid and that the answer is not 
> obvious in the GDP documentation.
>
> Thanks in advance for help
>
> José
>
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-doc] Beginner needs help

[Damien Levac]

Hmm, never thought of doing translations.
Is there a lot of stuff left to do in English to French translations? Or
just some article here and there?

Damien

On 02/28/13 23:47, José Fournier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think I have found a solution to my problem. In fact copying the
> original file from EN to FR folder and then translating works. The
> only trouble I had was that the link to the file (chapter) was not yet
> present in the master document /doc/fr/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml.
> We have something to learn every day .
>
> Now everything renders correctly in the browser.
>
>
> On 02/28/13 18:47, José Fournier wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Up to now I have updated the translation of files that were already
>> committed both sides (original and translation). Using gorg on a
>> checkout of the CVS provides a very easy way to see the English file
>> and the translated file side by side in a browser. This way one can
>> check the textual aspect of the document as well as its rendering
>> (the tags).
>> Now I come to a file which original only exists. Copying it into the
>> equivalent folder of the target language doesn't suffice to make it
>> appear in the browser. The only thing that is rendered is "cannot
>> convert nil into string". I guess the file has to be committed first
>> to be viewable in the browser. But I have no right to do so at the
>> moment.
>> My question is how to do this locally in order to have gorg render it
>> normally ?
>>
>> I hope my question is not too stupid and that the answer is not
>> obvious in the GDP documentation.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for help
>>
>> José
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-doc] Beginner needs help

[Xavier Miller]

Quoting Damien Levac <damien.levac@gmail.com>:

> Hmm, never thought of doing translations.
> Is there a lot of stuff left to do in English to French translations? Or
> just some article here and there?
>
> Damien

Hello
There is at least 3 years updates to integrate, since the french  
translation is not active anymore.

I started an initiative to update the French manual [1], but I don't  
have not so much time for now (I had some free time before, but I  
changed of work and have things to do =:o>)

Feel free to collaborate to that unofficial initiative, the best way  
for non-developers is to files documentation bugs with patch to  
updated documents.

Kind regards,
Xavier Miller

[1]  
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-931252.html?sid=5ff5d43f539978fdd41e5bbca16bd415

Re: [gentoo-doc] Date problem

[José Fournier]

(Sorry for linked words in this mail probably due to a bug in my config)

Hi,

Can somebody tell me how to be allowed to translate pages of the 
official wiki ?
I tried but I was told you are not allowed to translate. Clicking the 
"request permission" button lead me to a Project:Translator empty page !

Regards

José

Re: [gentoo-doc] Date problem

[Sven Vermeulen]

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:57:35AM +0100, José Fournier wrote:
> Can somebody tell me how to be allowed to translate pages of the 
> official wiki ?
> I tried but I was told you are not allowed to translate. Clicking the 
> "request permission" button lead me to a Project:Translator empty page !

The wiki mentions that you can ask on #gentoo-wiki or through the
wiki@gentoo.org address. I'm not sure if many wiki folks are on the
gentoo-doc mailinglist.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

[gentoo-doc] Bug 377179 updating of xen

[José Fournier]

Hi Sven,

As I cannot commit the file, I hesitated to put status to " Resolved" 
--> Fixed but I have few choices.
Please have a look.

Regards

José