[gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Alin Dobre]

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Lukasz Damentko wrote:
> rane        05/10/02 21:26:32
> 
>   Modified:    xml/htdocs/doc/en quick-samba-howto.xml
>   Log:
>   minor fix (an FAQ -> a FAQ) thx to mad939 for reporting - NO OTHER CONTENT CHANGE

the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
so it should be prefixed with 'an'.

am i right or am i wrong?

- --
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Gentoo.RO Community:          http://www.gentoo.ro/
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Ioannis Aslanidis]

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Alin Dobre wrote:
> the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
> speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
> that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
> so it should be prefixed with 'an'.
> 
> am i right or am i wrong?

I thought that depended on one's accent... not sure about most correct
english though. I've always heard /fak/, but never /efak/.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Łukasz Damentko]

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:44:54 +0200
Ioannis Aslanidis <deathwing00@gentoo.org> wrote:

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> 
> Alin Dobre wrote:
> > the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
> > speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
> > that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
> > so it should be prefixed with 'an'.

blackace and AllanonJL (both native speakers as well) say it's "a FAQ"
not "an FAQ", so we have 2:1 for now...

with regards,
Łukasz Damentko
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Curtis Napier]

Łukasz Damentko wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:44:54 +0200
> Ioannis Aslanidis <deathwing00@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> 
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>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>Alin Dobre wrote:
>>
>>>the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
>>>speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
>>>that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
>>>so it should be prefixed with 'an'.
> 
> 
> blackace and AllanonJL (both native speakers as well) say it's "a FAQ"
> not "an FAQ", so we have 2:1 for now...
> 
> with regards,
> Łukasz Damentko


Yes indeed, ciaran is correct. You go by the "sound" not by the 
spelling. That's why we say "an honor" instead of "a honor" (the h is 
silent). But in the case of FAQ he is incorrect because it's pronounced 
fa-ack not ef-ack. Silly en_GB speakers. :-)

For reference see here:
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/a.html#a

or here:
http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#36
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Jack Dark]

It is "an FAQ". I'm a native en_US speaker, though I'm much more of a
stickler for correct phonetics than most. But even so, I think most
en_US speakers also say "an FAQ", because we say it phonetically: "eff
ay cue". That's the correct way of saying it in US English.


On 10/2/05, Curtis Napier <curtis119@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Łukasz Damentko wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:44:54 +0200
> > Ioannis Aslanidis <deathwing00@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >>Alin Dobre wrote:
> >>
> >>>the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
> >>>speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
> >>>that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
> >>>so it should be prefixed with 'an'.
> >
> >
> > blackace and AllanonJL (both native speakers as well) say it's "a FAQ"
> > not "an FAQ", so we have 2:1 for now...
> >
> > with regards,
> > Łukasz Damentko
>
>
> Yes indeed, ciaran is correct. You go by the "sound" not by the
> spelling. That's why we say "an honor" instead of "a honor" (the h is
> silent). But in the case of FAQ he is incorrect because it's pronounced
> fa-ack not ef-ack. Silly en_GB speakers. :-)
>
> For reference see here:
> http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/a.html#a
>
> or here:
> http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#36
> --
> gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Curtis Napier]

Jack Dark wrote:
> It is "an FAQ". I'm a native en_US speaker, though I'm much more of a
> stickler for correct phonetics than most. But even so, I think most
> en_US speakers also say "an FAQ", because we say it phonetically: "eff
> ay cue". That's the correct way of saying it in US English.
> 

Since when? I have never in my entire 35 years heard a N. American say 
it eff ay cue. Everyone I have ever talked to says it as a word not as a 
series of letters.I have worked in this industry for a loooong time. In 
fact, I worked at UUnet as a contractor for 6 months and everyone of the 
engineers there said it as a word and not as a series of letters. I also 
was a full time employee of VanStar for over 5 years and it was the same 
thing there. These are HUGE companies with a Global presence so all 
those engineers can't be wrong.

According to faqs.org it is acceptable both ways but saying it is as one 
word is now the more commonly accepted form. So I guess we are both 
correct and we should drop this thread and leave it up to the indivdual 
who is writing the document to use "A" or "An".
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Shyam Mani]

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Curtis Napier wrote:

> Yes indeed, ciaran is correct. You go by the "sound" not by the
> spelling. That's why we say "an honor" instead of "a honor" (the h is
> silent). But in the case of FAQ he is incorrect because it's pronounced
> fa-ack not ef-ack. Silly en_GB speakers. :-)

Ummm, we pronounce it af eff a que. Not Fak. It is an acronym and eff a
que is how you say it :) So, he's right and it is an FAQ.

> http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#36

And from the above site...

According to The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style, "The
indefinite article a is used before words beginning with a consonant
sound, including /y/ and /w/ sounds. The other form, an, is used before
words beginning with a vowel sound. Hence, a European country, a Ouija
board, a uniform, an FBI agent...

We say Eff Bee Eye agent, not Fubby agent or EffBee or EffBye, right? So
it's Eff A Que :) not fack or you know where I'm going :p

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Curtis Napier]

Shyam Mani wrote:
> Curtis Napier wrote:
> 
> 
>>Yes indeed, ciaran is correct. You go by the "sound" not by the
>>spelling. That's why we say "an honor" instead of "a honor" (the h is
>>silent). But in the case of FAQ he is incorrect because it's pronounced
>>fa-ack not ef-ack. Silly en_GB speakers. :-)
> 
> 
> Ummm, we pronounce it af eff a que. Not Fak. It is an acronym and eff a
> que is how you say it :) So, he's right and it is an FAQ.
> 
> 
>>http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#36
> 
> 
> And from the above site...
> 
> According to The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style, "The
> indefinite article a is used before words beginning with a consonant
> sound, including /y/ and /w/ sounds. The other form, an, is used before
> words beginning with a vowel sound. Hence, a European country, a Ouija
> board, a uniform, an FBI agent...
> 
> We say Eff Bee Eye agent, not Fubby agent or EffBee or EffBye, right? So
> it's Eff A Que :) not fack or you know where I'm going :p
> 

No, when you use the first letters of a series of words that is going to 
be pronounced as a series of letters like F.B.I then that is an 
abbreviation or an initialism. An acronym is the first letters of a 
series of words put together to form a new word. FAQ is an acronym not 
an abbreviation so it is pronounced as a word not as the letters F.A.Q.. 
If it was supposed to be pronounced as a series of letters it would be 
written F.A.Q. but it isn't.

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9354382?query=acronym&ct=
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=acronym&x=0&y=0
http://www.answers.com/topic/acronym
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/acronym
http://www.answers.com/acronym&r=67

This is silly. Just leave it up to the person who writes the doc. What 
difference does it make to any of us? Rane already changed it and 
changing it back would be redundant.
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Marc Serra]

I suggested the change because i pronounce it as a word itself, Fak (never
heard it pronounced diferent, but here isn't too much people speaking
english ><). Sorry, i'm not a native english speaker, as you can see :P

> Shyam Mani wrote:
>> Curtis Napier wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes indeed, ciaran is correct. You go by the "sound" not by the
>>>spelling. That's why we say "an honor" instead of "a honor" (the h is
>>>silent). But in the case of FAQ he is incorrect because it's pronounced
>>>fa-ack not ef-ack. Silly en_GB speakers. :-)
>>
>>
>> Ummm, we pronounce it af eff a que. Not Fak. It is an acronym and eff a
>> que is how you say it :) So, he's right and it is an FAQ.
>>
>>
>>>http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#36
>>
>>
>> And from the above site...
>>
>> According to The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style, "The
>> indefinite article a is used before words beginning with a consonant
>> sound, including /y/ and /w/ sounds. The other form, an, is used before
>> words beginning with a vowel sound. Hence, a European country, a Ouija
>> board, a uniform, an FBI agent...
>>
>> We say Eff Bee Eye agent, not Fubby agent or EffBee or EffBye, right? So
>> it's Eff A Que :) not fack or you know where I'm going :p
>>
>
> No, when you use the first letters of a series of words that is going to
> be pronounced as a series of letters like F.B.I then that is an
> abbreviation or an initialism. An acronym is the first letters of a
> series of words put together to form a new word. FAQ is an acronym not
> an abbreviation so it is pronounced as a word not as the letters F.A.Q..
> If it was supposed to be pronounced as a series of letters it would be
> written F.A.Q. but it isn't.
>
> http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9354382?query=acronym&ct=
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=acronym&x=0&y=0
> http://www.answers.com/topic/acronym
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/acronym
> http://www.answers.com/acronym&r=67
>
> This is silly. Just leave it up to the person who writes the doc. What
> difference does it make to any of us? Rane already changed it and
> changing it back would be redundant.


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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Shyam Mani]

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Curtis Napier wrote:

> This is silly. Just leave it up to the person who writes the doc. What
> difference does it make to any of us? Rane already changed it and
> changing it back would be redundant.

Silly yes...this is also the American Vs British English thing since
those of us outside the US haven't hear Fack and those of you in the US
haven't heard Eff A Que :D

Leave it to the author, who wrote it as "an FAQ", so revert the change.
Simple.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Ioannis Aslanidis]

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Shyam Mani wrote:
> Curtis Napier wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is silly. Just leave it up to the person who writes the doc. What
>>difference does it make to any of us? Rane already changed it and
>>changing it back would be redundant.
> 
> 
> Silly yes...this is also the American Vs British English thing since
> those of us outside the US haven't hear Fack and those of you in the US
> haven't heard Eff A Que :D
> 
> Leave it to the author, who wrote it as "an FAQ", so revert the change.
> Simple.
> 

I smell a GWN article for the next week!


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Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Peter Humphrey]

Shyam Mani wrote:

> Silly yes...this is also the American Vs British English thing since
> those of us outside the US haven't hear Fack and those of you in the US
> haven't heard Eff A Que :D

No it isn't. It has next to nothing to do with US v UK.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Jack Dark]

Agreed. And I guess fewer North Americans used "an F A Q" than I
thought . . . I must be in the minority, then.

On 10/2/05, Shyam Mani <fox2mike@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Silly yes...this is also the American Vs British English thing since
> those of us outside the US haven't hear Fack and those of you in the US
> haven't heard Eff A Que :D
>
> Leave it to the author, who wrote it as "an FAQ", so revert the change.
> Simple.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Peter Humphrey]

Łukasz Damentko wrote:

> blackace and AllanonJL (both native speakers as well) say it's "a FAQ"
> not "an FAQ", so we have 2:1 for now...

It's not a matter of votes, but of whether the abbreviation is also an 
acronym, i.e. whether it can be pronounced as a word. In this case it can, 
and I believe it usually is, so it's "a FAQ", not "an F A Q".

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Shyam Mani]

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Alin Dobre wrote:

> the last time this was discussed via irc, ciaranm (who is a native en_GB
> speaker) said that the correct form is: "an FAQ", the explanation being
> that FAQ it's spelled: ef a q, so it phonetically begins with a vocal,
> so it should be prefixed with 'an'.

This is correct. It is "an" FAQ not a FAQ. The letter F sounds like eff
when you say it and not fe fu fo... A, B, C.... F that's the sound you
say F A Q with...so it is an FAQ.

rane, would you be kind enough to reverse that change you made? Thanks.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Peter Humphrey]

Shyam Mani wrote:

> This is correct.

Will you people stop arguing about correctness? Any question of correctness 
can be decided once and for all wherever it can apply, such as in 
arithmetic. Since any attempt to define correct English is doomed to failure 
(witness this silly thread), it is daft to keep on trying. Try for idiomatic 
usage instead, then you can acknowledge the unavoidable regional and 
national differences that we see and hear daily.

 > It is "an" FAQ not a FAQ. The letter F sounds like eff when you say it

No it doesn't, unless it's alone. You wouldn't want me to say "an fantasy", 
would you? FAQ is an acronym, i.e. a word just as valid as fantasy. Soon, I 
predict, it won't even be spelt with capitals. Bend with the wind.

 > and not fe fu fo... A, B, C.... F that's the sound you say F A Q with

It might be if anyone ever said F A Q.

...so it is an FAQ.

Not in any rational lexicon.

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:18:06PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Will you people stop arguing about correctness? 

That'd be wonderful.

It's an FAQ and that's it. Shut up and go back to bugfixing.

  :p






Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

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  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Xavier Neys]

Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:18:06PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> 
>>Will you people stop arguing about correctness? 
> 
> 
> That'd be wonderful.
> 
> It's an FAQ and that's it. Shut up and go back to bugfixing.

Nope. As far as GDP is concerned, it is 'a FAQ'.
I found only one occurrence of 'an faq' (not even in uppercase) in 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/dotnet/faq.xml on www.g.o, but a few occurrences 
of 'a FAQ' as in your own
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/status/status_20041021.xml

Now that's been settled, we can all go back to bug squashing.

Cheers,
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\  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en
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Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 11:58:54PM +0200, Xavier Neys wrote:
[...]
> a few occurrences of 'a FAQ' as in your own
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/status/status_20041021.xml

*grmbl*

That's because I like to taint my documentation with errors so that, if
anyone steals my documentation, I can prove that it is mine because it has
the same subtle errors in it :p

/me goes back to his e-mail list...

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RE: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml

[Trembleau, Alain]

A song:

You say "Eff Ay Queue", and I say "Fak"
You say "Vye", and I say "Vee Aye"
You say "SeQueL", and I say "Ess Queue Ell"
Let's call the whole thing off ...

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Xavier Neys [mailto:neysx@gentoo.org]
Sent: 04 October 2005 22:59
To: gentoo-doc@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-doc] Re: cvs commit: quick-samba-howto.xml


Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:18:06PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> 
>>Will you people stop arguing about correctness? 
> 
> 
> That'd be wonderful.
> 
> It's an FAQ and that's it. Shut up and go back to bugfixing.

Nope. As far as GDP is concerned, it is 'a FAQ'.
I found only one occurrence of 'an faq' (not even in uppercase) in 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/dotnet/faq.xml on www.g.o, but a few occurrences 
of 'a FAQ' as in your own
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/status/status_20041021.xml

Now that's been settled, we can all go back to bug squashing.

Cheers,
-- 
/  Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/  French & Internationalisation Lead
\  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en
/\
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