[gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Hi,

The qting-edge overlay (the official overlay for the Gentoo Qt team) is
a great success as a place to develop new ebuilds, packages, eclasses,
to prepare new releases, to maintain bleeding edge stuff like live
ebuilds and especially as a training ground for new recruits. I thought
it would be a good idea to do something similar for our multimedia
related projects, and Steve "beandog" Dibb agreed.

So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
ground for new contributors to Gentoo.

We would like to invite anyone interested in developing and maintaining
ebuilds related to multimedia in the wider sense: video, sound, tv,
graphics and fonts. If you have any live ebuilds or otherwise bleeding
edge packages, you can move them to the overlay for testing and shared
maintenance.

Enjoy!

Ben

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Ben de Groot wrote:
> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.

Good idea!

Out of curiousity:  Is a gitorious account a technical must or would an
SSH pubkey do as well?



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Good idea!
> 
> Out of curiousity:  Is a gitorious account a technical must or would an
> SSH pubkey do as well?

you need a gitorious account for commit access

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Thomas Sachau]

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Ben de Groot schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> The qting-edge overlay (the official overlay for the Gentoo Qt team) is
> a great success as a place to develop new ebuilds, packages, eclasses,
> to prepare new releases, to maintain bleeding edge stuff like live
> ebuilds and especially as a training ground for new recruits. I thought
> it would be a good idea to do something similar for our multimedia
> related projects, and Steve "beandog" Dibb agreed.
> 
> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
> Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
> Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
> commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
> sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
> ground for new contributors to Gentoo.
> 
> We would like to invite anyone interested in developing and maintaining
> ebuilds related to multimedia in the wider sense: video, sound, tv,
> graphics and fonts. If you have any live ebuilds or otherwise bleeding
> edge packages, you can move them to the overlay for testing and shared
> maintenance.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Ben
> 
> 

Is there a special reason, why we need to split things even more? Why not invite those devs and
interested users to sunrise? Training ground for interested users is one of the main goals of our
project.

-- 
Thomas Sachau

Gentoo Linux Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Mark Loeser]

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Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> said:
> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
> Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
> Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
> commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
> sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
> ground for new contributors to Gentoo.

Why can't this be on our official overlays?  Is there a technical
reason, because we seem to just be spreading things out even more than
necessary.

-- 
Mark Loeser
email         -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email         -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web           -   http://www.halcy0n.com

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Multimedia overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/11/2009 03:06 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> Ben de Groot schrieb:
>> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay.
>>  [...]
>
> Is there a special reason, why we need to split things even more? Why not invite those devs and
> interested users to sunrise? Training ground for interested users is one of the main goals of our
> project.

No, please not to sunrise :P  Don't make us remove sunrise from our 
installations because it will start wanting to replace packages from 
portage with its own, more bleeding edge than bleeding edge versions. 
Let it continue to offer packages that are not available at all in 
portage, instead of offering newer versions of packages that are already 
in portage.  Thank you :P

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Federico Ferri]

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Hash: SHA1

Ben de Groot wrote:
> We would like to invite anyone interested in developing and maintaining
> ebuilds related to multimedia in the wider sense: video, sound, tv,
> graphics and fonts. If you have any live ebuilds or otherwise bleeding
> edge packages, you can move them to the overlay for testing and shared
> maintenance.

note that for sound-related packages there exists pro-audio overlay

- --
Federico Ferri
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Josh Saddler]

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Ben de Groot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The qting-edge overlay (the official overlay for the Gentoo Qt team) is
> a great success as a place to develop new ebuilds, packages, eclasses,
> to prepare new releases, to maintain bleeding edge stuff like live
> ebuilds and especially as a training ground for new recruits. I thought
> it would be a good idea to do something similar for our multimedia
> related projects, and Steve "beandog" Dibb agreed.
> 
> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
> Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
> Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
> commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
> sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
> ground for new contributors to Gentoo.
> 
> We would like to invite anyone interested in developing and maintaining
> ebuilds related to multimedia in the wider sense: video, sound, tv,
> graphics and fonts. If you have any live ebuilds or otherwise bleeding
> edge packages, you can move them to the overlay for testing and shared
> maintenance.

Why isn't this on git.overlays.gentoo.org?

If it's not on Gentoo infrastructure, it's not "official."



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Jeremy Olexa]

Josh Saddler wrote:

> Why isn't this on git.overlays.gentoo.org?
> 
> If it's not on Gentoo infrastructure, it's not "official."
> 
> 


Q: Are All Official Overlays Hosted On overlays.gentoo.org?

A: No. Gentoo developers are free to put their overlay wherever suits 
them best; they don't have to use overlays.gentoo.org if they don't want to.

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/userguide.xml

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Josh Saddler]

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Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> Josh Saddler wrote:
> 
>> Why isn't this on git.overlays.gentoo.org?
>>
>> If it's not on Gentoo infrastructure, it's not "official."
>>
> Q: Are All Official Overlays Hosted On overlays.gentoo.org?
> 
> A: No. Gentoo developers are free to put their overlay wherever suits
> them best; they don't have to use overlays.gentoo.org if they don't want
> to.
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/userguide.xml

I'm well aware of that. It's A Dumb Policy(tm). :)



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Markos Chandras]

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On Tuesday 11 August 2009 03:06:21 Thomas Sachau wrote:
> Ben de Groot schrieb:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The qting-edge overlay (the official overlay for the Gentoo Qt team) is
> > a great success as a place to develop new ebuilds, packages, eclasses,
> > to prepare new releases, to maintain bleeding edge stuff like live
> > ebuilds and especially as a training ground for new recruits. I thought
> > it would be a good idea to do something similar for our multimedia
> > related projects, and Steve "beandog" Dibb agreed.
> >
> > So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> > http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> > join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
> > Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
> > Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
> > commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
> > sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
> > ground for new contributors to Gentoo.
> >
> > We would like to invite anyone interested in developing and maintaining
> > ebuilds related to multimedia in the wider sense: video, sound, tv,
> > graphics and fonts. If you have any live ebuilds or otherwise bleeding
> > edge packages, you can move them to the overlay for testing and shared
> > maintenance.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Ben
>
> Is there a special reason, why we need to split things even more? Why not
> invite those devs and interested users to sunrise? Training ground for
> interested users is one of the main goals of our project.
@Ben
Great news. We do maintain many multimedia packages on qting-edge so those can 
me moved to multimedia overlay since I think it is more appropriate.

@Thomas, I think you missed the "bleeding edge" part of Ben's e-mail :). By 
"bleeding edge" we mean live, snapshots or even version bumps for many 
packages that are not ready or well tested to be on portage tree yet. Sunrise 
philosophy is to NOT include ebuilds for packages that are already on portage 
so we can't use sunrise as an alternative.
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer [KDE/Qt/Sound/Sunrise]
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Robert Buchholz]

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On Tuesday 11 August 2009, Josh Saddler wrote:
> Why isn't this on git.overlays.gentoo.org?

I'm not going to request access to the overlay, so I respect if media 
herds want this to be hosted on gitorious.

In my opinion, the entrance barrier for devs is lower on git.overlays, 
there is no signup, password, mail verification required. There's 
scripts to keep the ssh keys in LDAP and on git.overlays in sync, and 
people can just request access to at overlays@g.o and usually get it 
done within 24 hours.

Anyway, good luck with more media powaaah!

Robert

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Maciej Mrozowski]

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On Tuesday 11 of August 2009 11:08:34 Robert Buchholz wrote:

> In my opinion, the entrance barrier for devs is lower on git.overlays,
> there is no signup, password, mail verification required. There's
> scripts to keep the ssh keys in LDAP and on git.overlays in sync, and
> people can just request access to at overlays@g.o and usually get it
> done within 24 hours.

Except usually it takes much longer than 24 hours (like over a month in my 
case).
No, thank you.

Good luck with new overlay yngwin :)

-- 
regards
MM

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Robert Buchholz]

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On Tuesday 11 August 2009, Maciej Mrozowski wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 of August 2009 11:08:34 Robert Buchholz wrote:
> > In my opinion, the entrance barrier for devs is lower on
> > git.overlays, there is no signup, password, mail verification
> > required. There's scripts to keep the ssh keys in LDAP and on
> > git.overlays in sync, and people can just request access to at
> > overlays@g.o and usually get it done within 24 hours.
>
> Except usually it takes much longer than 24 hours (like over a month
> in my case).
> No, thank you.

Please do not generalise from your case. I do not have the history back 
when your key was added, but the last mail dates I could correlate to 
gitosis commits draw a different image:
2009-07-29: dev overlay creation, 80 minutes lag
2009-07-23: user key change, 27 minutes lag
2009-07-12: user added, 17 minutes lag
2009-06-09: user key change, 18:50 hours lag
2009-06-07: project overlay creation, 14:28 hours lag
2009-05-18: user key added, 14 minutes lag

If you need something, mail overlays@g.o and if no one replies within 
three days, mail again. And if you still encounter shortage of time, 
sign up to be a dev and help out.


Robert

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Federico Ferri wrote:
> note that for sound-related packages there exists pro-audio overlay

my impression is that pro-audio really focuses on _professional_ audio
software.  that's two very different sets of applications.  i don't see
any benefits from mixing them, do you?



sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Josh Saddler wrote:
> I'm well aware of that. It's A Dumb Policy(tm). :)

What advantage do you see in forcing people to have their overlays
hosted on http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/ ?



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Arun Raghavan]

2009/8/11 Sebastian Pipping <webmaster@hartwork.org>:
> Josh Saddler wrote:
>> I'm well aware of that. It's A Dumb Policy(tm). :)
>
> What advantage do you see in forcing people to have their overlays
> hosted on http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/ ?

The advantage is primarily that we retain control of the
infrastructure on which it (the official Gentoo project) is hosted.
-- 
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Maciej Mrozowski]

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On Tuesday 11 of August 2009 17:07:47 Arun Raghavan wrote:

> The advantage is primarily that we retain control of the
> infrastructure on which it (the official Gentoo project) is hosted.

Yes, and this is the problem.
That's probably why there's still no CIA.vc bot tracking kde-testing overlay 
on #gentoo-kde
Being able to grant/revoke overlay access easily is of course other thing.

-- 
regards
MM

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

2009/8/11 Maciej Mrozowski <reavertm@poczta.fm>:
> That's probably why there's still no CIA.vc bot tracking kde-testing overlay
> on #gentoo-kde

Actually, you can totally blame Arun for this. *point* *grin*

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

GNOME Team, Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Markos Chandras]

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On Tuesday 11 August 2009 18:07:47 Arun Raghavan wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Sebastian Pipping <webmaster@hartwork.org>:
> > Josh Saddler wrote:
> >> I'm well aware of that. It's A Dumb Policy(tm). :)
> >
> > What advantage do you see in forcing people to have their overlays
> > hosted on http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/ ?
>
> The advantage is primarily that we retain control of the
> infrastructure on which it (the official Gentoo project) is hosted.
Sorry but IMHO this is not an argument. By hosting projects/overlays on 
gitorious/github we can administer them more quickly without bothering infra 
team for minor issues such as giving access to users/developers. 
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer [KDE/Qt/Sound/Sunrise]
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Arun Raghavan]

2009/8/11 Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org>:
[...]
>> The advantage is primarily that we retain control of the
>> infrastructure on which it (the official Gentoo project) is hosted.
> Sorry but IMHO this is not an argument. By hosting projects/overlays on
> gitorious/github we can administer them more quickly without bothering infra
> team for minor issues such as giving access to users/developers.

This still does not address the original problem - if
$external_service shuts down, is bought out, has arbitrary terms about
content that are not immediately clear as being unfavourable to us,
(at least) that part of the project which is hosted on is negatively
affected.

The 1-2 times that I asked for access to overlays, time taken was a
non-issue. If others have had problems, let's fix that instead.
-- 
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Arun Raghavan<ford_prefect@gentoo.org> wrote:
> The 1-2 times that I asked for access to overlays, time taken was a
> non-issue. If others have had problems, let's fix that instead.

How much effort do you estimate would need to be invested to have a
webinterface (or similar) which lets overlay owners directly edit
access to their overlay(s)? One (easy) possibility I can think of is
ssh commands. I say "easy" because the service (ssh) and auth (ssh
keys) are already there.

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

GNOME Team, Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Arun Raghavan]

2009/8/11 Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org>:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Arun Raghavan<ford_prefect@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> The 1-2 times that I asked for access to overlays, time taken was a
>> non-issue. If others have had problems, let's fix that instead.
>
> How much effort do you estimate would need to be invested to have a
> webinterface (or similar) which lets overlay owners directly edit
> access to their overlay(s)? One (easy) possibility I can think of is
> ssh commands. I say "easy" because the service (ssh) and auth (ssh
> keys) are already there.

Doable, I think, but more man-power (I volunteer to help, btw) might
be, on the whole, a lower-effort and more secure option. That said,
Robin
-- 
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Maciej Mrozowski]

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On Tuesday 11 of August 2009 19:38:48 Arun Raghavan wrote:

> This still does not address the original problem - if
> $external_service shuts down, is bought out, has arbitrary terms about
> content that are not immediately clear as being unfavourable to us,
> (at least) that part of the project which is hosted on is negatively
> affected.

As far as git is concerned, there's no reason not to have this 'unsafe' 
gitorious repo cloned on Gentoo within infra and synced periodically 
(preferably with push disabled) for layman purpose. Development would still be 
kept on gitorious as it's superior in terms of manageability.
I guess it satisfies both sides, doesn't it?

-- 
regards
MM

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:26:17PM +0530, Arun Raghavan wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org>:
> > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Arun Raghavan<ford_prefect@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> The 1-2 times that I asked for access to overlays, time taken was a
> >> non-issue. If others have had problems, let's fix that instead.
> > How much effort do you estimate would need to be invested to have a
> > webinterface (or similar) which lets overlay owners directly edit
> > access to their overlay(s)? One (easy) possibility I can think of is
> > ssh commands. I say "easy" because the service (ssh) and auth (ssh
> > keys) are already there.
> Doable, I think, but more man-power (I volunteer to help, btw) might
> be, on the whole, a lower-effort and more secure option. That said,
> Robin
We'd run the software that powers repo.or.cz probably if we were going
to do that.

I've got no objection to it, we just need to see about keeping the
noise/spam down if we do open it like that.

Even if we did that, we'd need a couple more people on the overlays
management team. So I'd like to extend this invitation:
More developers willing to learn the bits needed to process Git overlay
requests are welcome to contact the alias, overlays@gentoo.org

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer & Infra Guy
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Thomas Sachau wrote:

> Is there a special reason, why we need to split things even more? Why not invite those devs and
> interested users to sunrise? Training ground for interested users is one of the main goals of our
> project.

Sunrise has a very different policy (e.g. no packages already in
portage) and workflow (e.g. dev review).

You know I fully support Sunrise and regularly refer users to it, when
they want to contribute. But for what we want it is not exactly the
right tool.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Mark Loeser wrote:
> Why can't this be on our official overlays?  Is there a technical
> reason, because we seem to just be spreading things out even more than
> necessary.

Because on g.o.g.o. we can not admin it ourselves, resulting in delays
and adding to infra's burden. Also, the web interface is quite bare, not
as pretty and nice to work with as gitorious (and github).

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Arun Raghavan wrote:
> This still does not address the original problem - if
> $external_service shuts down, is bought out, has arbitrary terms about
> content that are not immediately clear as being unfavourable to us,
> (at least) that part of the project which is hosted on is negatively
> affected.

As this is a git overlay, it's not a problem. It would be very easy to
move the public repo to another location.

Ben

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Arun Raghavan]

2009/8/12 Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org>:
> Arun Raghavan wrote:
>> This still does not address the original problem - if
>> $external_service shuts down, is bought out, has arbitrary terms about
>> content that are not immediately clear as being unfavourable to us,
>> (at least) that part of the project which is hosted on is negatively
>> affected.
>
> As this is a git overlay, it's not a problem. It would be very easy to
> move the public repo to another location.

Which still does not address concerns about (admittedly paranoid)
concerns about terms of use and content.
-- 
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Ben de Groot]

Arun Raghavan wrote:
> 2009/8/12 Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org>:
>> As this is a git overlay, it's not a problem. It would be very easy to
>> move the public repo to another location.
> 
> Which still does not address concerns about (admittedly paranoid)
> concerns about terms of use and content.

Not being paranoid, I fail to see how that is a problem.

Ben

Re: [gentoo-dev] Multimedia overlay

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Tuesday 11 August 2009 18:26:04 Ben de Groot wrote:
> Mark Loeser wrote:
> > Why can't this be on our official overlays?  Is there a technical
> > reason, because we seem to just be spreading things out even more than
> > necessary.
>
> Because on g.o.g.o. we can not admin it ourselves, resulting in delays
> and adding to infra's burden. Also, the web interface is quite bare, not
> as pretty and nice to work with as gitorious (and github).

so that should be addressed.  i.e. please file a bug.
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Multimedia overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/11/2009 01:28 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>[...]
> So hereby we announce the Gentoo Multimedia overlay. It is located at
> http://gitorious.org/gentoo-multimedia and any developers who want to
> join can let us know their gitorious account name, so they can be added.
> Administration of the overlay will be shared among the participating
> Gentoo devs, so new committers can quickly be added. Any users that want
> commit status can get access after their work is found to be of
> sufficient quality. We encourage this, as the overlay is also a training
> ground for new contributors to Gentoo.

Is this dead before it even began?  I'm getting no replies from 
yngwin@gentoo.org.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Multimedia overlay

[Jeremy Olexa]

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de> wrote:

> Is this dead before it even began?  I'm getting no replies from
> yngwin@gentoo.org.

He is away: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/devaway.xml?select=yngwin#yngwin