From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E12A1387A7 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E18BE21C008; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBB4221C001 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1154D33DC5D for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-1.047, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.546, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KM9MYWwKZ4fn for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D25733BF20 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U10zB-0000kf-Qz for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:43:53 +0100 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:43:53 +0100 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:43:53 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: readme.gentoo.eclass: Add a DISABLE_AUTOFORMATTING variable Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:43:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1359295221.2927.24.camel@belkin4> <2397459.bCZm6DZF3s@smorgbox> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.140 (Chocolate Salty Balls; GIT 6ffed20 /usr/src/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) X-Archives-Salt: 9a1af8eb-59e8-48f9-9e06-3efa36379e30 X-Archives-Hash: 154e038e28720ae3cd566624960d6c6e Dan Douglas posted on Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:22:04 -0600 as excerpted: > On Sunday, January 27, 2013 03:00:21 PM Pacho Ramos wrote: >> [Discussion of DOC_CONTENTS var] >> > Why does this eclass even exist? Everything that it does can be done > directly in an ebuild in a couple lines of code, except in a much less > ugly manner. It doesn't help to generalize anything. If you want to copy > a file and call dodoc then just do it, don't write a pointless wrapper > that people then have to go and look up what it does in order to read > your ebuilds. You appear to be missing the point. The goal of the eclass isn't to copy a file; as you say, that's covered. Instead, the current problem is the common PKG_POSTINST messages that appear time and time again as people upgrade, that are important the first time and for reference, but after the first time, they're mostly just noise that users learn to ignore as they've seen them many times before. Of course, ignoring such messages becomes a problem when an ebuild actually prints something new and useful, and VERY important (like reconfigure before you reboot or your reboot won't go well!), as the maintainer now has no way to get THOSE messages across. So we get solutions like enews, and PKG_PRETEND, and ebuilds requiring I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING vars, etc, so they don't end up with unbootable systems because they ignored the one important new message in all the "noise" of messages they'd read a dozen times over, already. But arguably, those are solutions to different problems. The real problem here is that we repeat the same messages every time a package is installed, until they're just "noise" that many users eventually simply ignore, leaving package maintainers without a /reasonable/ way to communicate the really important stuff. That's the problem this eclass is trying to solve, providing a(n eclass standardized) way for maintainers to print important messages the first time they apply, but also to log them to a common location for reference purposes so a user can go back and look them up a year and several updates later, if for example they mistakenly restored an old copy from backup, and end up needing to redo whatever once again. Basically, a better elog. It seems to have generally been agreed that such functionality would be useful and should be standardized in an eclass (or new EAPI, but an eclass is faster to deploy if it does the job). Now the discussion is centering around getting it right. Formatting the messages handed to it by default or not. Cleaning up the proposed code. Tweaking for corner cases not yet covered but easily covered with a small change now before there's 200 packages calling it that must be changed if the way it's called changes slightly to accommodate that corner-case. Etc. > Funnily, looking at the implementation of elog, it appears to already > mangle its input by a pass of `echo -e', pointlessly reading lines and > joining them back together again repeatedly. This is just horrible! I > don't even... So you saw the comparison to elog, handling a message given it, and /still/ missed that the eclass was to create a NEW file in a standardized location, putting into it the content passed in, not simply copy an existing file? Missed the forest for all the trees. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman