From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97501381F3 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BAD4421C00C; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F038921C008 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:40:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D5F33D984 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:40:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.585 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.585 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-1.218, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.365, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JcPfG6AmPNgC for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:40:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD73033D973 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Tc7Xt-00016N-8T for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:40:49 +0100 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:40:49 +0100 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:40:49 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: New global useflag proposals Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:40:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1353701772.17594.8.camel@kanae> <20121123181130.4e21f0d2@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.140 (Chocolate Salty Balls; GIT f91bd24 /usr/src/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) X-Archives-Salt: f6d1ee8b-a50c-492d-a960-9128ddbf29a8 X-Archives-Hash: 112e3e03e509aac124695360b9591ebf Alexis Ballier posted on Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:11:30 -0300 as excerpted: > I remember I was more or less against [USE=introspection] being global > back then, but now I must admit its meaning is quite clear and that I > don't consider it local anymore (I enable/disable it in make.conf not > package.use), so I'd say go for it. FWIW as a (long-time reasonably technical, even for gentoo) gentoo user, with very few exceptions, ALL my flags are in make.conf (actually, in a file /etc/portage/make/use, sourced from make.conf, as are several other files in that dir, make.conf itself is simply a bunch of source lines, but whatever), and thus "global" in terms of my own usage. I /consistently/ run with --ask/--pretend and verify flags on new packages, as well as checking any flag changes on existing packages, and making a system-wide-default decision once seems the easiest and most reasonable way to handle it, here. Then when I decide to change it for a package, I run equery hasuse and see what else uses that flag, then grep for it in both package.use/* and make/use, then change it globally if possible and run a --newuse -- pretend to see what changed, and decide then whether I want to keep the global change or if I want some packages each way, decide what I want the default to be, and put the others in package.use/*. There are only two exception packages, udev and ncmpc. Otherwise, even my package.use files are per-USE-flag. One ls is worth a thousand-word description: $ ls /etc/portage/package.use/ 0neg-amr 0neg-network doc secure-delete 0neg-bindist 0neg-openssl gtk sql 0neg-custom-cflags 0neg-qt4 minimal suid 0neg-deprecated 0neg-threads perl text 0neg-faac 0neg-webkit pic unlock-notify 0neg-gnutls 0neg-xml pipe webkit 0neg-gpg 0neg-zeroconf python zzpkg-ncmpc 0neg-kde 0neg-zlib sdl zzpkg-udev I'd guess that the global/local USE flag distinction is in practice lost on most users, and that of those that /do/ know the technical difference, likely most use make.conf for most local USE flags anyway, at least setting a system default, from which individual packages may deviate via package.use. That's certainly the case here. Given that, I'd argue that the global/local USE flag distinction is almost entirely maintainer convenience (tho I'm not sure it actually /is/ a convenience, at least for those who bother to fill in the per-package metadata description of what it's actually doing for that package) in any case, and I'd just as soon get rid of it, keeping a global description of ALL USE flags, regardless, and mandating appropriate metadata.xml local descriptions regardless as well. That way, global flags such as python would actually have reasonable per- package descriptions. Does it simply enable python script bindings? Does it enable installation of a bunch of python scripts? Does it enable a python-script extension for the package? What? The global python flag doesn't say, and far too few packages with the global python USE flag have a local description saying what it actually DOES. Unfortunately, that's the case with (raw guess) half the USE flag usage out there -- the gentooer has to actually read the ebuild to see what the flag does /for/ /that/ /package/, even tho the description SHOULD be in metadata.xml, thus exposed via equery uses, even for global flags. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman