From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SD521-0000Er-2l for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:24:09 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53CD1E0E91; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:23:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AE7E0E79 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:22:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B4A1B4005 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:22:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.515 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.515 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-0.603, BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4dPT6WfKm2RA for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7000D1B400A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:22:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SD4zq-0004gG-I5 for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:21:54 +0200 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:21:54 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:21:54 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: About suggesting to create a separate partition for portage tree in handbook Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:21:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20337.28987.736877.961717@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20120327154239.GA17394@gentoo.org> <1332870540.18466.9.camel@belkin4> <20120328152708.4ab19be7@angelstorm> <4F73AE5C.8030200@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.136 (I'm far too busy being delicious; GIT 0efefbf /st/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 1e4d6c8e-0617-49b7-a1ff-090aaf7abc10 X-Archives-Hash: fd6872d857aac4f5c400647b6d05e227 Dale posted on Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:35:40 -0500 as excerpted: > Joshua Saddler wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:49:00 +0200 Pacho Ramos >> wrote: >>=20 >>> I am a bit surprised handbook still doesn't suggest people to create = a >>> separate partition for /usr/portage tree. I remember my first Gentoo >>> systems had it inside / and that lead to a lot of fragmentation, much >>> slower "emerge -pvuDN world" [and] a lot of disk space lost >>> Could handbook suggest people to put /usr/portage on a different >>> partition then? The only doubt I have is what filesystem would be >>> better for it, in my case I am using reiserfs with tail enabled, but >>> maybe you have other different setups. >> not gonna happen, for reasons that SwifT & others already mentioned. >> this is the sort of non-simple, non-trivial text/info/instructions tha= t >> would be better suited to an "optimizing your FS layout" article on th= e >> gentoo wiki, or similar. Agreed, tho ACTUALLY having the documentation available, AND LINKING to=20 it in the handbook ("For an in-depth discussion, read..."), would be a=20 good thing. > Well, way back when I first installed Gentoo, I actually read some > before I even started. I learned through all that reading that /, > /boot, /home, /usr, /usr/portage and /var are best on their own > partition. Each of those are for different reasons. Same here. It's a bit of a point of pride for me that before I even had=20 my own gentoo system installed (some problem due to my wanting posix=20 threading, then relatively new to Linux, over Linux threads; didn't work=20 for me with 2004.0, worked great with 2004.1), I had read the handbook,=20 etc, and was replying on the lists to questions from folks who obviously=20 hadn't read up... But I already had a good idea what I wanted my partition layout to look=20 like based on my Mandrake experience. The questions I needed to ask,=20 because they were NOT covered in the manual (or anywhere else in the=20 documentation I could find at the time), and because they were self- evidently going to have rather different answers on gentoo than on=20 mandrake, were things like: Just how big IS the portage tree? What about the package tree? What about the sources tree? After a couple partition reorganizations, I ended up with sources inside=20 the portage tree, but packages on its own partition, making it easier to=20 keep packages backed up, something the portage tree and sources don't=20 need as the net's a far more sufficient backup for them than I could ever= =20 manage locally. For years I've thought that a bit more emphasis should be placed on=20 FEATURES=3Dbinpkg, given the many ways it can save your ass and/or make=20 troubleshooting a current version issue far easier. And while I agree=20 that the installation section of the handbook, in any case, isn't the=20 place for complex discussion of the many system partitioning schemes and=20 their positives/negatives, information such as the above, exactly what=20 sort of realistic sizes can be expected for the portage tree itself, for=20 sources, and for binpkgs (if the feature is enabled), should be covered. That's because most gentoo users have at least some experience on other=20 distros before they come to gentoo, and thus likely already have a=20 preferred partitioning setup... if they care about it at all. All they=20 really need is information about the relative sizes of gentoo-specific=20 features, the ebuild tree, sources, and binpkgs, and perhaps a bit better= =20 coverage of the binpkgs option (which I'd simply link-punt in the install= =20 section as well, but cover it a bit better under the working with portage= =20 section, with the install-section link pointing there). > The root partition is obvious, I would hope anyway. ;-) The boot > partitions comes in handy if you don't automount it or have more than > one distro installed. Home is obvious. People recommended /usr becaus= e > it could a) be mounted read only and b) it can be enlarged if needed > since it tends to grow a lot. Portage since it is tons of small files > and tends to fragment a lot. The var partition is so that if some erro= r > message repeats itself overnight and fills up the partition it at least > doesn't lock up the whole system. I actually had this one happen to me > once. For some reason, even logrotate didn't catch it, tar up and > delete the old ones. I woke up to a mess that only going to single use= r > would fix. The best thing I did was to have /var on its own partition. FWIW, that's /var/log on it's own partition here, for exactly the reason=20 you mention. But /var itself is on rootfs here, these days. > When people are planning to install Gentoo and they have not done at > least some research, I think they should get to keep the pieces. > Installing Gentoo is not something to do on a whim. It should be > planned and thought through even if the person is completely new to > Gentoo. I read up for at least a month before ever even starting. Again agreed, But really, to some degree it's something that's only learned from=20 experience. If anything, what I'd suggest for the installation manual=20 partitioning section would be a variant on the programmer's dictum: "Plan to throw one away, because you're either going to end up doing it=20 anyway after you make your mistakes and figure out the way you /should/=20 have done it, or putting up with a sub-optimum setup if you don't throw=20 one away, and planning for it from the beginning will make the process=20 easier when the time comes." I know I've gone thru several partition layout iterations here, before I=20 came up with something very close to what I'd consider optimal... that=20 has stayed that way for several years. =3D:^) > I agree with having a simple manual for the folks that want to install > just to look and then have a separate manual, wiki even, for more > serious set ups. This can include things like RAID, LVM and having mor= e > than a couple partitions. Of course, Gentoo is almost endless in > options. Agreed. The only thing I'd add would be that the simple installation=20 should have "for more information" type links to the more complex=20 discussions of each step/decision, at the appropriate place. Then people= =20 like Dale and I will read them, and but they'll be clearly marked "for=20 more information" or similar, so those uninterested in that sort of=20 discussion can easily skip it. =3D:^) --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman