From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RiqsZ-0003Gv-Kp for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:13:27 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF2EA21C106; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:13:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9841E21C0DC for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:12:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2336D641FF for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:12:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=1.574, BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.935, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BsTvQG3zfo6D for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:12:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lo.gmane.org (lo.gmane.org [80.91.229.12]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684361B404C for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Riqrl-0001PE-Gf for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:12:37 +0100 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:12:37 +0100 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:12:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: rfc: locations of binaries and separate /usr Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:12:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20120101015947.GA9914@linux1> <20120101085326.GA1928@gentoo.org> <20120102194341.3766edeb@pomiocik.lan> <20120104165112.5c24ed12@pomiocik.lan> <20120104155407.7c946dbc@googlemail.com> <1325698810.22213.16.camel@TesterBox.tester.ca> <20120104183007.GG30764@lisa.schiffbauer.lan> <20120105092616.125d76b0@pomiocik.lan> <20120105110849.GC20366@lisa.schiffbauer.lan> <1325773867.29839.5.camel@TesterBox.tester.ca> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 52412d8 /st/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: a47ab9a6-949c-44c6-be76-e5aa23503d88 X-Archives-Hash: c5b038c7ecb88c09602afbb6c99cb1a8 Olivier Cr=C3=AAte posted on Thu, 05 Jan 2012 09:31:07 -0500 as excerpted= : > On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 12:08 +0100, Marc Schiffbauer wrote: >>=20 >> I meant "hight-level" only in a way that it is not really needed to >> boot the very basic things of a system so that I can get a root prompt >> at the console at least. E.g. you do not need dbus to find and mount >> the rootfs, fire a getty and shell. >=20 > Obviously, you can do init=3D/bin/sh, that's doesn't help you much. I > think we're all speaking of a minimally useful system here. But init=3D/bin/sh (or /bin/bash as I use here) DOES help in a surprising= =20 number of cases as long as the necessary storage and input drivers and=20 filesystem modules are builtin. And a lot of us have strong ideas about=20 wanting to keep it that way, being able to use init=3D/bin/sh on the kern= el=20 command line itself, from grub or whatever. Some of us even tried lvm and dumped it for precisely that reason: it=20 requires userspace and thus an initr* if root is on lvm, and without an=20 lvm managing root, its usefulness is diminished to the point where it's=20 more trouble than it's worth, especially since md/raid has handled=20 partitioned RAID very well for quite some time now (a big use case for lv= m=20 originally, since md/raid didn't handle partitioned mds directly, back in= =20 the day), AND unlike lvm, it can be configured on the kernel command line= =20 directly, allowing one to actually get to that init=3D/bin/sh if necessar= y. That's low level. Tell me when init=3D/usr/bin/dbus-whatever works from=20 the kernel command line. Until then, system-bus or no-system-bus, it's=20 not even in the same ball park, or even on the same planet, come to think= =20 of it, level-wise. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman