From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QwD8f-0007um-2L for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:05:04 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89C0921C0A6; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B2121C082 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:03:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518D41B4031 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:03:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -4.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.568 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=1.901, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_RMML_Stock10=0.13] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ov+b0W4GK3MK for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lo.gmane.org (lo.gmane.org [80.91.229.12]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0631B4026 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwD7F-0004Cp-NU for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:03:33 +0200 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:03:33 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:03:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoostats, SoC 2011 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20110822212030.GA8233@felicia> <201108231816.51076.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <20110824103135.GH20891@denkmatte.private.newton.cam.ac.uk> <4E54D703.9090806@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 7b22759 branch-master) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: bd138195069b90c325438cafed40ed49 Rich Freeman posted on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 07:07:54 -0400 as excerpted: > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Lauer > wrote: >> If you sneakily add something to cron.daily by default you can get >> pretty nice coverage. But I guess anyone trying that in Gentooland wil= l >> meet some rather unpleasant resistance :) >=20 > Well, we could always broadcast the news widely (lists, forums, > eselect news, and so on). >=20 > I'd also make it controllable via use flag. Put the client and the > cron.daily file in a package, and then make that a use-dependency of > something everybody has (the profile if profiles support this (don't > think they do), and if not pick something that correlates well with > people who would benefit from this feature. >=20 > Users can opt-out via use flag. >=20 > You can also start out with it being opt-in (use flag off by default in > profiles), and then turn it on later (with notice/etc). >=20 > The key is to not be sneaky about it. Agreed on the no-sneaky bit. The practical question is what to make it a USE flag of? Baselayout/ openrc? Portage? Personally, I'd start with a couple paragraphs in the handbook describing= =20 the package and why one really /does/ want it installed and setup but=20 that Gentoo gives the user the option, as part of the installation=20 section, presumably thrown in with choosing the cron and syslog daemons,=20 etc. Then I'd do the PR thing as you mention, pointing out that it's in the=20 handbook now, so new users will likely be installing it, and to avoid=20 skewing the numbers toward the new installations, existing installations=20 should consider it as well. Existing users aren't likely to want the=20 focus to shift to packages only the noobs are likely to install, for=20 instance. Setup a bit of a competition there, and I'd guess you're=20 likely to get better buy-in from existing users. I'd leave the USE flag dependency out of it, at least initially. It=20 could always be added later, if thought necessary. But I suspect that if= =20 it's presented well in the handbook, many new users will install it, and=20 if that fact is pointed out to existing users in appropriate forum/list=20 threads, etc, many existing users will as well, just to "keep up",=20 statistically. Yet if it's a separate package that must be separately=20 installed, there's no way people can say it wasn't their choice, as they=20 might be able to if it's a USE flag they weren't paying attention to,=20 particularly if that flag defaults on. Make it an active choice and=20 people are far more likely to continue with it, too, than if they felt in= =20 any way that it was pushed on them, with little choice. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman