From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mmpcf-0001Ea-N8 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:00:09 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0ED05E0917; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11EBE0925 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1EC64338 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:00:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FNaF+pfKqOyS for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:59:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lo.gmane.org (lo.gmane.org [80.91.229.12]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C059464D8D for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:59:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1MmpcK-0007Xc-7q for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:59:48 +0200 Received: from ip68-231-21-207.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.21.207]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:59:48 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-21-207.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:59:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: DistroWatch and Gentoo packages: status quo and future Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <4AAAD714.1010107@hartwork.org> <4b0462b4d4cc0f26a7b45e6787d51890@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-21-207.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.133 (House of Butterflies) Sender: news Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: fb207d02-2eb2-45b4-8043-d910e08be2f5 X-Archives-Hash: 1a57fd62d6b5eb0c0f709fad471e1849 Jes=C3=BAs Guerrero posted on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:11:42 +0200 as excerpte= d: > On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:02:44 +0200, Sebastian Pipping > wrote: >>=20 >> Among other information the Gentoo page at DistroWatch [1] displays a >> table on about 200 selected packages [2] and how up to date Gentoo is >> per package. I assume that DistroWatch is still one of the first >> places people go to get a feeling for a Distro they heard about, >> besides Wikpedia and ${distro}.org. >=20 > Seriously, I doubt that the average Gentoo user comes from Distrowatch. > Gentoo is born from a necessity which is very different from the usual > binary distro. Gentoo has never been about fame or marketing. ++ [package listing of not in Gentoo tree or way outdated] >> Miro >> .. Not in official tree (yet?), available through an Overlay >>=20 >> xmms >> .. Removed for security reasons, available through an Overlay >>=20 >> Maybe we should move Miro to the main tree? >=20 > Most Gentoo users will have no problem to use overlays as they need > them. Agreed. Yes, overlays are perhaps a bit more trouble to setup than=20 simply maintaining normal tree updates once setup. But let's get some=20 context here. layman's no difficulty at all, really, when compared to=20 the ordinary stuff we expect Gentoo users to do all the time. Gentoo has= =20 never been about spoon-feeding and this is no exception. Layman is a=20 great and powerful tool, certainly, and like any powerful tool, it takes=20 a bit of learning to use, before even the user should trust himself with=20 it. =3D:^) But that's more true of Gentoo itself than it is of layman, a= nd=20 anyone who can manage Gentoo can certainly manage layman with little=20 trouble. > If we had more developers we could as maintain more packages, as > simple as that. Indeed. > Besides that, if you want some new version, you are free to use > bugs.gentoo.org to submit a bug, version bump, or whatever. I'm not so sure about this. Sure, one can submit a bug, but would that=20 have done any good on, say, kde4, one popular overlay people use,=20 particularly during the period that portage didn't work with it? What=20 about the kde sets? Would they be allowed in the tree just based on a=20 bug? The obvious answer is no, and there's good reasons for it. I can see the argument both ways for putting stuff like that in the main=20 tree -- masked, of course, and possibly in an obscure location that the=20 PMs could ignore unless configured otherwise. Personally, I'd like to=20 see more of it in the main tree, hard-masked when necessary, instead of=20 in the overlays. But I have a strong suspicion I'd feel otherwise if I=20 were one of the devs tasked with getting packages like that, particularly= =20 huge interrelated conglomerations of packages like that, actually into=20 some sort of usable working (for ordinary Gentoo users. altho as I said=20 above, they're already a cut above ordinary users) shape. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman