[gentoo-dev] News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[gentoo-dev] News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Hi,

see attached test, please review.  Translations welcome after final
version, I can do German myself.

V-Li

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://gentoo.faulhammer.org/>

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Title: GNU Emacs 23 and byte-compiled .el files
Author: Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted:
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0
Display-If-Installed: =app-editors/emacs-23*

Due to lot of internal changes GNU Emacs 23 may be incompatible with
byte-compiled elisp files (suffix .elc) from older versions.  All Emacs
support files installed by packages either from the app-emacs
category or through the emacs USE flag must be recompiled.
 Users can easily achieve this by installing the
app-admin/emacs-updater package

 emerge --ask app-admin/emacs-updater

and running /usr/sbin/emacs-updater as root.  The package will
automatically remerge all packages installed with an older version of
GNU Emacs.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Josh Sled]

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Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
> see attached test, please review.

Why not just an elog during install of the emacs-23 package itself?

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}

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[gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Hi,

Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org>:

> Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
> > see attached test, please review.
> 
> Why not just an elog during install of the emacs-23 package itself?

 Because nobody reads them and you get weird errors on start-up which
will result in bug reports. 

V-Li

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://gentoo.faulhammer.org/>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Josh Sled]

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Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
> Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org>:
>> Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
>> > see attached test, please review.
>> 
>> Why not just an elog during install of the emacs-23 package itself?
>
>  Because nobody reads them 

If one doesn't read elog, which is at least put in the terminal during
the emerge (if not sent to IM or email), why would they read news, which
they need to go out of their way to find?

> and you get weird errors on start-up which
> will result in bug reports. 

Except this won't get shown until after installation anyways.

    Display-If-Installed: =app-editors/emacs-23*

Maybe…

    Display-If-Installed: <app-editors/emacs-23

…instead?  To show to those users that are upgrade candidates?

I do wish there was a "pretend/pre-emerge notification" capability in
portage for things like upgrade guides (libxml, python 2.5->2.6, gnome,
xorg-1.5, &c.).  I guess news gets most of it, and then some.

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}

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Re: [gentoo-dev] News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:08:27 +0200
Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> wrote:
> see attached test, please review.  Translations welcome after final
> version, I can do German myself.

Shouldn't you be showing this to people who have older emacs versions
installed, not people who have the newer version?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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[gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org>:
> >> Why not just an elog during install of the emacs-23 package itself?
> >
> >  Because nobody reads them 
> 
> If one doesn't read elog, which is at least put in the terminal during
> the emerge (if not sent to IM or email), why would they read news,
> which they need to go out of their way to find?

 Fewer people know about the elogging functionality than about their
display of "You have 1 unread news item".

> > and you get weird errors on start-up which
> > will result in bug reports. 
> 
> Except this won't get shown until after installation anyways.
> 
>     Display-If-Installed: =app-editors/emacs-23*
> 
> Maybe…
> 
>     Display-If-Installed: <app-editors/emacs-23
> 
> …instead?  To show to those users that are upgrade candidates?
> 
> I do wish there was a "pretend/pre-emerge notification" capability in
> portage for things like upgrade guides (libxml, python 2.5->2.6,
> gnome, xorg-1.5, &c.).  I guess news gets most of it, and then some.
>

 Your system won't be rendered unusable just because you updated Emacs
(the 23 version isn't activated by default if you do an upgrade, you
have 22 active besides the new one).  Such I want to get people who
will see Emacs 23 only when it hits stable in some months.  By then they
will have forgotten about the news item.

V-Li 

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://gentoo.faulhammer.org/>

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[gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Duncan]

Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> posted
20090730165344.10622a16@snowcone, excerpted below, on  Thu, 30 Jul 2009
16:53:44 +0100:

> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:08:27 +0200
> Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> see attached test, please review.  Translations welcome after final
>> version, I can do German myself.
> 
> Shouldn't you be showing this to people who have older emacs versions
> installed, not people who have the newer version?

It's slotted and whatever older version will remain the default until 
uninstalled (so Christian said in a different subthread), so show upon 
installation should be good, he seems to believe.

Also, showing it for earlier versions would display it now, well before 
it goes stable, and stable users who read it now may well have forgotten 
about it by the time they actually need it.  Thus, setting it to apply 
only when they've actually installed it is useful.

Hmm... I've not looked recently.  Is there a mechanism to trigger news on 
keyword as well as version, so that it becomes visible for ~arch users as 
soon as it's available to install at ~arch, but only for stable users 
when it becomes available in stable?  It seems such a thing might be 
useful, particularly if it checked package.keywords as well when that 
mechanism is triggered.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Josh Sled]

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Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
>  Fewer people know about the elogging functionality than about their
> display of "You have 1 unread news item".

Where do you expect them to see the unread news item message?  Honestly
curious … I don't believe portage shows them, and – looking at the
Handbook – news (or elog, for that matter) are not even mentioned,
though at least elog is in the example make.conf users are told to
setup.


> Such I want to get people who
> will see Emacs 23 only when it hits stable in some months.  By then they
> will have forgotten about the news item.

In my workflow, I'd not see the news item until the next time I run my
"get up to date" script, a week later.  Presumably well after I'd
already played around with the shiny new emacs-23 and encountered the
breakage.

I implore you to at least add a note in postinst; that seems the most
reliable place to notify users who are installing a package about the
package's effects.

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Josh Sled<jsled@asynchronous.org> wrote:
> Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
>>  Fewer people know about the elogging functionality than about their
>> display of "You have 1 unread news item".
>
> Where do you expect them to see the unread news item message?  Honestly
> curious … I don't believe portage shows them, and – looking at the

That's the point, it does. And it keeps showing it after every usage
of portage till you read the news item. Atleast that's the behaviour
in 2.2

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

GNOME Team, Gentoo

[gentoo-dev] Re: News Item: Emacs 23 upgrade

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Hi,

Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org>:

> Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> writes:
> >  Fewer people know about the elogging functionality than about their
> > display of "You have 1 unread news item".
> 
> Where do you expect them to see the unread news item message?
> Honestly curious … I don't believe portage shows them, and – looking
> at the Handbook – news (or elog, for that matter) are not even
> mentioned, though at least elog is in the example make.conf users are
> told to setup.

 Portage displays "There is 1 unread news item" after a lot of actions
(a successful merge being one of them).  Maybe a patch for the handbook
is in the range of possibilites to document these important features.

> I implore you to at least add a note in postinst; that seems the most
> reliable place to notify users who are installing a package about the
> package's effects.

 Did so.

V-Li

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://gentoo.faulhammer.org/>

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