From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L73BE-0001nX-06 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:26:52 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9EA4BE0227; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50883E0227 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E8164633 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -2.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.945 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.654, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0rx7eZ2Uqn3h for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BDC64535 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1L73Aw-0001n6-Q5 for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:26:34 +0000 Received: from ip68-230-99-190.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.99.190]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:26:34 +0000 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-99-190.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:26:34 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] Saving package emerge output (einfo, elog, ewarn, etc.) somewhere official Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:26:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <4932BE8F.6030000@gentoo.org> <1228064455.25651.158.camel@localhost> <4932C955.2080300@gentoo.org> <493355A7.90503@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-99-190.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.133 (House of Butterflies) Sender: news Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: fae8827e-7c26-4d83-bcdb-1070acdc18b1 X-Archives-Hash: 709761ec019fd81e6c311a58a1143990 Ben de Groot posted 493355A7.90503@gentoo.org, excerpted below, on Mon, 01 Dec 2008 04:10:31 +0100: > The info is there, but most users never read more than part 1 of the > Handbook (that is, the installation part). We could, and should in my > opinion, add a big fat warning towards the end of the installation part= , > that there is extremely useful information to be found in the other > parts of the Handbook. Maybe we could especially mention some of the > more useful topics, and the elog system would be one of them. Well, at the end of the Handbook, Pt 1, Installation, in Chapter 12,=20 Where to go from here, it already mentions Pt 2, Working with Gentoo. It= =20 really should mention Pts 3 & 4, Working with Portage and Gentoo Network=20 Configuration, as well, the chapter of interest here of course being in=20 Working with Portage. So yes, we really could improve the end of the Handbook, pt 1, Where to=20 go from here, having it mention Pt 3 & 4 as well as Pt 2. That's=20 something we can and should do, absolutely. Beyond that, however, Gentoo has never been about hand-holding. It=20 expects you to be big enough to cross the street on your own without=20 further hand-holding if it provides the stop light telling you when it's=20 safe to do so; to be able to find and read the documentation, which=20 Gentoo does have a generally excellent reputation in the community for=20 providing, on your own. There are plenty of other distributions out=20 there for those who prefer to let the distribution make the decisions and= =20 take the responsibility. Gentoo has always been about giving the user=20 the ability to decide and configure that for himself, after reading the=20 documentation where necessary. If the user can't do that after we've=20 gone to all the work of providing both the means and the documentation on= =20 configuring, right there in the official handbook even, with links and=20 references to the handbook quite well distributed already, well, maybe=20 that user really /should/ be looking at a different distribution. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman