From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Khgh5-00076A-Rz for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:57 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 499E4E0659; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022A8E0659 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59F6B4E4A for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -2.815 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.815 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.784, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ks3YybkJmbyK for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B269B4D03 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Khggr-0007lv-Pv for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:42 +0000 Received: from ip68-231-12-43.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.12.43]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:41 +0000 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-12-43.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:41 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default src_install for EAPI-2 or following EAPI Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:22:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-12-43.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.133 (House of Butterflies) Sender: news Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: bbe657b7-ce98-4176-8ad3-99fa5e457623 X-Archives-Hash: 850c49c8677954a2743a257db3741a6f "Alec Warner" posted b41005390809211835h39f5a359k571e9693f7db1630@mail.gmail.com, excerpted below, on Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:35:04 -0700: > gentoo-x86 uses bash; the ebuilds, the eclasses, they all rely on it. > I'm pretty sure most package managers rely on bash as well, but I have > not looked at the code outside of portage to verify. >=20 > I really dislike ideas where the compelling argument is 'in the future > we may make a specific decision and that makes that one choice easier.' > If you have a compelling argument for switching the entire tree to POSI= X > then give it; however I'm pretty sure it is a difficult argument to mak= e > (Uberlord tried to make it in the past and did not succeed). Otherwise > lets just roll with the bash implementation. ++ This seems to be what it comes down to. Based on past discussion, while=20 individual devs can go POSIX and nobody's going to complain, indeed,=20 they're likely to be respected for taking that position in regard to=20 /their/ /own/ /code/, there's sufficient resistance to making /all/ devs=20 favor POSIX over BASH that it's effectively not even rational to=20 contemplate it at this time, nor is it likely to be for a dev generation=20 or more. Trying to do otherwise is /perceived/ as (note I didn't say it=20 was the /intent/ of, only /perceived/ as) trying to force POSIX down the=20 throat of others, and given the current state requiring bash, turns that=20 respect for devs doing it for their own work on its head -- they're then=20 seen as being an active danger to the ability of devs who don't=20 differentiate between POSIX sh and BASH to continue as devs in good=20 Gentoo standing, with the entirely predictable reaction being to oppose=20 them at nearly any cost. Which pretty much leaves Gentoo depending on BASH now and for the=20 foreseeable future, and there's little point in debating it further or=20 indeed, in "artificially" trying to reduce that dependence, except in=20 one's own work if desired. It's just not worth the fractious debates it=20 causes, particularly when the conclusion is predetermined based on past=20 iterations. We've lost very good developers on this issue in the past. =20 Let's not make it any more, OK? --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman