From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K6xqZ-0007gP-HR for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:55 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA408E0105; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706BBE0105 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 166BD66024 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -1.876 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.876 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.234, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZQhqyLdNK41U for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92BCD66E63 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1K6xqE-0007qH-PZ for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:34 +0000 Received: from ip68-231-12-133.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.12.133]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:34 +0000 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-12-133.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:34 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Agenda [WAS: One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June] Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20080611070618.54E4066E24@smtp.gentoo.org> <20080612212148.GB14670@basestar> <200806122258.26896.levertond@googlemail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-12-133.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.132 (Waxed in Black) Sender: news Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: c5284e5b-8abd-4588-a779-387f14363684 X-Archives-Hash: 1ff83d69149a4cba8aca76a29f856c16 Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> posted pan.2008.06.13.00.42.33@cox.net, excerpted below, on Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:42:34 +0000: > Umm... pardon me for speaking my mind a bit here, and nothing personal, > particularly since I have the utmost respect for the talent and skills > of the people involved, but after seeing a pattern repeated over the > last couple days I've seen time and time before, it's getting tiresome > enough to write up! > What if the "filed a bug yet" attitude held on both sides, or even if > one side simply refused to play that begging dog or tricking pony the > other side expects them to be? It simply cannot go on that way forever= . > Something's going to give, now, or later, when there's ultimately no > more Gentoo to pull apart and therefore no more Gentoo PMs or PMS to > continue fighting over. OK, blame the continued posting on lack of sleep if you'd like, but it's=20 an honestly held opinion. What makes it worse is that the people=20 involved are, honestly, very skilled. Were it not so, were they say,=20 more like me (heh), it'd be easy enough to simply ignore them. However,=20 they can be very helpful when they want to be, it's a big loss, and it's=20 only this sick idea of entertainment, forcing humans to the humiliation=20 of basically doing tricks like animals for a bit of what after all is=20 claimed to be so simple information but that others can't seem to see,=20 that's the problem. The trouble is, the info, once the performance has=20 been deemed to have gone on long enough, is so often right... Still, ultimately, there are better ways to get it. If one person won't=20 provide it without someone stooping to his low idea of entertainment,=20 well, either time will provide, or perhaps it was a not-so-critical=20 corner case after all. If we could only treat each other as humans instead of trained circus=20 animals, something I'm still endeavoring to do, even in all this, thus=20 pointing out the virtues and a very good reason for respect, as well. No, the information doesn't /have/ to be provided as has been well=20 demonstrated, but it sure hopes when we're all at least ideally targeting= =20 a similar goal, if we cooperate in going that direction, instead of=20 fighting over it. Poisonous people indeed... I was skeptical at first, but the=20 demonstration has continued until I'm beginning to come, ever so=20 regretfully, to the same conclusion. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman --=20 gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list