From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EuSN0-0003ey-Q5 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:29:23 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k05ASXbx030061; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:28:33 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k05AQTRS012017 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:26:30 GMT Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EuSKD-00036G-Cd for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:26:29 +0000 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EuSK4-0000Ta-JN for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:26:20 +0100 Received: from ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.97.182]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:26:20 +0100 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:26:20 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 03:26:03 -0700 Organization: Organization? Only haphazardly. Message-ID: References: <43B96D6D.8080107@gentoo.org> <20060105043130.GI1967@mail.lieber.org> <43BCB0F9.5000505@egr.msu.edu> <200601042205.52361.cshields@gentoo.org> <20060105064956.GC14338@nightcrawler.e-centre.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2.91 (As She Crawled Across the Table) Sender: news X-Archives-Salt: 2108e15f-beae-4e0c-a391-f76a804a5fdc X-Archives-Hash: 75a66e078a478f99640dc29d10e2a139 Brian Harring posted <20060105064956.GC14338@nightcrawler.e-centre.net>, excerpted below, on Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:49:56 -0800: > Note I said 'intentional'; seems like people have been pushing for > gentoo as a whole to slow down (note the enterprise > concerns/complaints that hit the ml every 6 months for example). > > Dunno. Maybe it's all a ramble, maybe you think I'm a loon, but final > point I'm going to make is that pushing for a global solution (whether > a BDFL or board or committee) totally is missing the actual issue- > that individuals get things done, the larger the # of folks involved > in progressing towards something the slower they're going to move. This man speaks my mind. That's one of the things I'm worried about with the Enterprise Gentoo thing, and why I think it will make a better separate project than part of Gentoo itself. Anyone who thinks Gentoo isn't progressing simply isn't seeing the forest for all the trees, as they say. Another way of putting it is that Gentoo seems to be in that critical period after the honeymoon, it has hit its middle-aged crisis. Reality has set in -- we're not going to magically move mountains, as yes, a mountain /can/ be moved, see the history of the Panama canal for instance, but it takes a *LOT* of work, a LOT of investment, and sometimes even some deaths along the way. During that time, progress may seem painfully slow, yet it never-the-less occurs. What's the alternative, dumping the project and leaving it for dead? Then all that work and investment, and all those deaths, /will/ be in vain. OTOH, after a certain point, which Gentoo seems to have reached, throwing more bureaucracy at a project, as seems to be part of the proposal here, does more harm than good. I'm with Brian, here. If we want progress, we gotta slack off on the regulation a bit and give the folks actually down there getting their hands dirty some room to work, at least if we aren't willing (or able) to get in there with them. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list