From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EKHlk-0001EO-Ak for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:53:24 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id j8RFje4D020445; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:45:40 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j8RFhxAO010597 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:43:59 GMT Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EKHjQ-0007bJ-TP for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:51:01 +0000 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EKHgO-00071W-1H for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:47:52 +0200 Received: from ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.97.182]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:47:51 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:47:51 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dirt: To shove under the rug or not shove under the rug? (aka another round of USE_EXPAND) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:40:40 -0700 Organization: Sometimes Message-ID: References: <200509271823.25788.jstubbs@gentoo.org> <200509271139.10540@enterprise.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org> <200509271912.22758.jstubbs@gentoo.org> <200509271242.05438@enterprise.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2.91 (As She Crawled Across the Table) Sender: news Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by robin.gentoo.org id j8RFje5n020445 X-Archives-Salt: 56dfdba1-fb0a-4d6d-b21b-a2cb32577a0a X-Archives-Hash: b9fe73100fae617cd5c773de9aa96271 Diego 'Flameeyes' Petten=F2 posted <200509271242.05438@enterprise.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org>, excerpted below,= =20 on Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:41:50 +0200: > Saying for example that kdelibs uses kernel_linux can make people think= that=20 > kdelibs works ONLY for Linux kernel, while that's not true at all. I see your point on most of your post, but this simply doesn't ring true. What is one of the PRIMARY things that is drilled into the user's heads i= n all the documentation, forums, lists, etc, concerning USE flags? Is it not that they configure for OPTIONAL factors, that non-optional dependencies are merged unconditionally, so that USE flags have no effect on them? I agree that USERLAND and the like shouldn't be changed by an ordinary user under ordinary circumstances. use.force and the like could be very useful in this sort of situation, particularly since who knows /what/ sor= t of vars a user may have set up in his environment, quite apart from portage use, and these could do /very/ /bad/ things to emerges (which is, I believe, one of Jason's points, we need to either make users aware of these or isolate portage from normal vars that might have unintended consequences, failure to do so is a QA issue).=20 However, were an ebuild to spit out kernel_linux among the USE flags and the like, anybody that takes it as you suggest they might, that it works ONLY for the Linux kernel, can be said to know little enough about portage and how it works, specifically about how it treats optional vs non-optional dependencies, that they are a danger to themselves and the system they are attempting to maintain! Anybody NOT understanding that USE flags (and USE_EXPAND if we start displaying that as well) govern optional, NOT hard dependencies, while trying to work with portage, is ALREADY a danger to his system, to the point he shouldn't be making decisions about merges and the like in the /first/ place, because he doesn't understand enough about the process to do it in a logically coherent manner, and should REALLY spend a bit more time with the docs (o= r away from the booze or whatever may be clouding his judgement), before he starts emerging stuff. So... for these sorts of things, I'd say treat them like build and=20 boostrap, display them, but document the consequences of messing with the= m equally well. --=20 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html --=20 gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list