From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0LQ7-0005vY-K2 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 15:44:41 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j73FhVYq029408; Wed, 3 Aug 2005 15:43:31 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j73Ffost006147 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2005 15:41:51 GMT Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0LNt-0003wk-I4 for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 15:42:21 +0000 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1E0LLO-0008GS-Uy for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:39:46 +0200 Received: from ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.97.182]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:39:46 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:39:46 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: where goes Gentoo? Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:36:06 -0700 Organization: Sometimes Message-ID: References: <20050606235550.GL9084@kaf.zko.hp.com> <1123076347.31550.17.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-97-182.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2.91 (As She Crawled Across the Table) Sender: news X-Archives-Salt: 959ab788-4a8e-4dcc-a423-caff5d5c2ff8 X-Archives-Hash: 59551b937a6d6f51ae76c241ac15837d Chris Gianelloni posted <1123076347.31550.17.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net>, excerpted below, on Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:39:07 -0400: >> Administrating a Gentoo system takes time - much time, but ... > > This is something that I think most people forget. Running Gentoo makes > you a Linux Systems Administrator. Sure, you're only being the > administrator for your machine, which might only have one user, but you're > the admin. With some of the other distributions, *they* are the admin, > and you're just a user. They make assumptions for you and limit what you > can and cannot do (without an enormous amount of work to bypass their > limits). This is especially apparent in the many cases where users expect > Gentoo to do everything for them, when it doesn't. I've found myself emphasizing this same point a number of times. There are general system users that don't care /what/ they are on. Those are /just/ users. However, by definition, /Gentoo/ user == sysadmin, full-stop (period, for those USians not familiar with international English, "full-stop" seems to me to convey the idea better). You mention the lack of limits, and Sven mentioned the time it takes, but my emphasis tends to be on the responsibilities of the job. A good sysadmin invests the time and energy necessary to keep a healthy system, known vuln and exploit free, but more than that, "clean" and simple, because (s)he realizes the consequences of a failure to do so. A good sysadmin knows a fair amount about how their system works, in ordered to do that. A good sysadmin enjoys the job, or finds other work. Gentoo makes being a good sysadmin easy. However, by the same token, because it assumes that admin is in place, it tends to make being an ordinary "user" on an admin-less Gentoo system very difficult. Those that don't like being sysadmins, really should be looking at a distribution that, as you said, really takes on much of the sysadmin duties as part of the services provided by the distribution. The best Gentoo user, then, because being a Gentoo user by definition means being a sysadmin, truly enjoys both the responsibilities and privileges of system administration. Again, if that's /not/ the case, one really should be reexamining their choice of Gentoo, as it's really not the best fit distribution available for those who'd really rather be doing something other than system administration. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list