From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AAD4138247 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:14:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 96E4EE0AA0; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 854BBE0A81 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:14:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D38233F705 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:14:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-1.140, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.123, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MTkwuZDw1CNe for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20E6933F76A for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W3Zei-0006Es-N3 for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:13:52 +0100 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:13:52 +0100 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:13:52 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: rfc: revisiting our stabilization policy Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:13:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20140114213719.GA2684@laptop.home> <52D5B2CA.5030407@gentoo.org> <20140114223312.GA3337@laptop.home> <52D5BDAD.4030808@gentoo.org> <20140115011341.6c8395bf@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <52D5DB56.8070508@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.140 (Chocolate Salty Balls; GIT 6daf184 /usr/src/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) X-Archives-Salt: ef2de7e1-d0a6-47d3-a59a-c376be4220a9 X-Archives-Hash: d6e64dfa2ad932edb8f70cabe720a280 Michael Orlitzky posted on Tue, 14 Jan 2014 19:50:30 -0500 as excerpted: > As I mentioned in a reply to William, right now I can decide when stuff > is broken and keyword the newer versions. The proposal is to force me > onto the new versions, which is strictly worse from my perspective. Force?? As I discovered when gentoo/kde "forced" me into taking semantic-desktop up the with early kde 4.11, there's rather less "force" on gentoo than many realize, certainly as long as upstream is still supporting the options, anyway, one of the reasons I run gentoo.[1] =:^) Every once in awhile I drag an ebuild out of /var/db/pkg/ to put in my overlay, because the ~arch I normally run has moved on and my current version is gone, but the new version is broken (or simply hugely changed and I don't have time to reconfigure ATM), while the stab?le version is just that, stale. Of course the kde-sunset overlay is perhaps the ultimate example of that. Yes, ultimately there will eventually be some "forcing" as in-tree deps change and keeping the old/overlaid version building and running becomes more of an issue over time, but it'll be a gradual process over a number of years, and the gentooer remains free to pick his pain point and do the migration in his own time, which at minimum, makes it a substantially softer "force" than would be the case on /most/ distributions. --- [1] In the kde/semantic-desktop case, I diffed package versions with and without the flag and figured out which changes were related to it and which not, creating my own ebuild patches, which I dropped in a tree under /etc/portage/patches.ebuild/, similar to the /etc/portage/patches/ tree. I then hacked up a script to apply those ebuild patches and re- manifest, and added that step to my sync-script. This was all possible, and actually surprisingly easy, because (1) upstream kde still supports the configure options and AFAIK intends to thru all of kde4, and (2) gentoo/kde had the options available at one point, so all I had to do was diff the before and after, and reverse the effect, hard-coding the flag off, where gentoo/kde was was effectively hard-coding it on. Fortunately, before 4.11 went stable, gentoo/kde decided to keep the flags after all, and reintroduced them. So I didn't have to carry my own patches for as long as I had feared I might. But regardless, their "forcing" semantic-desktop on ~arch and overlay users didn't "force" /me/ to take it, because I'm an empowered gentooer and one way or another I wasn't taking any such "forcing"! There efforts underway to do a user- controlled kde-sunset overlay thing, possibly calling it kde-lite, too, thus spreading the work around a bit, but fortunately that ultimately wasn't needed. And if it had come to it, I was beginning to look at other desktops too, as I had tried it previously and was done with kde with semantic-desktop, period, but fortunately that migration didn't have to happen either. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman