From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <gentoo-dev+bounces-59870-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>
Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80])
by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104871381F3
for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:44 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8AA36E0A65;
Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:39 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183])
(using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B166E0930
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:38 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF75433DF07
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:37 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5
tests=[AWL=-1.296, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001,
SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id uKctId9up0ch for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>;
Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:31 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3])
(using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9137A335E31
for <gentoo-dev@gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:28 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from <lnx-gentoo-dev@m.gmane.org>)
id 1UVe9l-0007xl-Ub
for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:37:25 +0200
Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224])
by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
for <gentoo-dev@gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:37:25 +0200
Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
for <gentoo-dev@gentoo.org>; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:37:25 +0200
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net>
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:37:16 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <pan$34f1e$926ec6c$6c63f1ae$20217a38@cox.net>
References: <20130424161606.GA1607@linux1> <51795ECC.4030603@mva.name>
<CAGfcS_=1eSYp_fQcWrnPfLS7nMa=V78eyPU0avKDPJ0TJJXVHQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CA+ZvHYE3Ab3+_wirRqTm5v9cjgT39UvtU0Pt0-ecML6Az+T05Q@mail.gmail.com>
<pan$7a4fd$c6e2baff$420f5b90$7c72b720@cox.net>
<CA+ZvHYEFOumUihu6ZPsN23HGdieZ1fHWf035H6qxve8bZ072kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net
User-Agent: Pan/0.140 (Chocolate Salty Balls; GIT f3d4165
/usr/src/portage/src/egit-src/pan2)
X-Archives-Salt: 5434f879-626f-4f80-b7c6-5ac51c21bb85
X-Archives-Hash: dba05701587a0a8129a0ae5d925bcb12
Carlos Silva posted on Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:51:01 +0000 as excerpted:
> gentoo *running* in a box without it having network connection
> [is AFAIK] not something any John Doe would do. Offline
> installations and "runtimes" are for geeks that use linux for a long
> time and know how the system work and have the knowledge to build a
> stage4 or chroot and move it to another box. It's not something
> technically difficult for us "geeks", but would take ages for some
> non-geek to do it.
That sounds an awful lot like how most distro users out there would
characterize gentoo in general...
The point being, as said many times before, gentoo isn't a hand-holding
distro. We provide the tools and often the documentation, but at some
point it's up to the user, and gentoo is one of the few distros that
seems to both recognize and respect that line, making it reasonably easy
for a user to do whatever they want, including breaking something and
keeping the pieces if that's the ultimate end result of what they want...
FWIW, that's one of the reasons a lot of us ARE gentooers. =:^)
> The bottom line here is, does @system have to have
> virtual/network-provider?
> - Yes -> Make it RDEPEND;
> - No -> don't care and just set some use flags.
>
> The question above is more a political one than technical.
Agreed.
FWIW, either a stdnet/oldnet default-use in openrc, or a virtual/net in
@system, sounds appropriate to me. I do believe that if oldnet is split
out, however, it only makes sense to split out newnet as well.
Otherwise, people are likely to favor newnet in ordered to avoid another
package, when the gentoo default has always been oldnet, and this
proposal isn't about changing that.
Meanwhile, FTR, I run both USE=-* and an entirely negated @system (no
packages in @system at all, as I've /etc/portage/profile/packages-ed them
away!), but AM running oldnet here. So whatever the solution ends up
being, I almost certainly have some config changes to deal with coming
up. But that's precisely why I'm subscribed here, to get a heads-up on
this sort of thing coming down the pike before I crash into it and GAME
OVER!
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman