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From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:14:41 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <pan$18379$a238c4cf$61ae5747$a41b439b@cox.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 53D27B6F.30704@gentoo.org

hasufell posted on Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:44:47 +0000 as excerpted:

> Sounds like that would be an interesting gentoo project. But afais PMS
> doesn't really specify how binary packages should look like, so we will
> hit incompatibility problems there as well.

AFAIK binpkgs are purely an individual PM feature, considered outside the 
domain of PMS.

Unless things have changed, paludis doesn't support them at least in 
portage form and there's active antipathy toward adding that (altho I 
believe there was discussion of adding rpm support at one point).

I don't know whether pkgcore supports them or not, tho if it does, I 
suspect its support is close to the portage-native form.  But while I 
believe someone's working on pkgcore again now, until it gets EAPI-5 
support it's pretty much out of the picture anyway.

Gentoo did at one point do binpkg ISO-images, but I've not seen or heard 
anything of that in years, and of course while they did form a convenient 
quick-install foundation, they were quickly outdated, and there was no 
gentoo-only mechanism to continue with binpkgs -- you did your quick-
install from binpkg, optionally changed any USE flags you wanted and 
rebuilt using --newuse, and continued with conventional gentoo build-from-
source after that.


Meanwhile, it's worth noting that a mostly from-sources distro such as 
gentoo has the luxury of bypassing many of the legal issues involved with 
binary distribution.  Among other things there's the patent issues that 
don't normally apply (at least in the US) to source distribution due to 
freedom-of-speech-overrides, and the gpl source provision (including our 
patches) obligations as well.

Partially for that reason, gentoo as a distribution has in the past 
chosen to deemphasize binaries and leave most of the binary distribution 
angle to the gentoo-based distros.  That lets us continue focusing on 
what we do best, while leaving the gentoo-based distros a bit more space 
to work on what they can do better.  While there'd certainly be some 
convenience to a binaries server, is it really going to be worth the 
cost, in legal hassle, in blurring our sources focus, and in killing that 
exclusive niche for our downstream distros?

Meanwhile, a question for the infra and foundation folks:  A quick look 
at the the download links and mirrors says that we're still distributing 
10.1 images for at least x86 and amd64.  Based on the file-dates on the 
mirrors, that was 2009, and I don't see corresponding links to sources, 
which means at least for the gplv2 binaries on those images, we're 
obligated to provide sources, including our patches, until 2017 (three 
years from now) and counting.  While the ebuilds and tarballs aren't 
likely to be a huge issue, are we sure we have those patches archived and 
will until three years after we quit distributing those binaries, such 
that we can provide them on-demand?  If not, those images need to come 
down.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman



  reply	other threads:[~2014-07-26  7:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 276+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-07-21 19:37 [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps hasufell
2014-07-21 19:42 ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 19:50   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 20:06     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 20:13       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-21 20:12         ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 20:17       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 20:28   ` hasufell
2014-07-21 20:41     ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-22 22:05       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-08-27 16:18         ` Jan Matejka
2014-07-21 20:49     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:01     ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:06       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:13         ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:16           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 22:13       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22 21:11   ` Michał Górny
2014-07-22 22:22     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23 13:36     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 21:56   ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-25  8:36     ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-26 12:00     ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:33       ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-21 19:53 ` [gentoo-dev] " Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-21 19:55   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:06     ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-21 21:15       ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:21         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:25           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:30             ` Maxim Kammerer
2014-07-26 12:52               ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:54           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:00             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:57               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:04                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22  7:39       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22  7:52         ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-22  9:50         ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 13:53       ` [gentoo-dev] " Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-22 18:40         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 18:50           ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-23  4:11             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 18:51           ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 19:10             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 19:26               ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 20:06                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 20:40                   ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 20:51                     ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-23 13:15                       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-26 11:20                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-23  1:15                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-25  8:38                     ` Duncan
2014-07-26 11:31                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 22:44         ` [gentoo-dev] " Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  0:01           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-24 22:42             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 13:00               ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:07                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 14:44           ` [gentoo-dev] " Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 14:59             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 15:09             ` hasufell
2014-07-25 15:15               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:23                 ` hasufell
2014-07-25 15:26                   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:44                     ` hasufell
2014-07-26  7:14                       ` Duncan [this message]
2014-07-26 12:41               ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:49                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:04                   ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:09                     ` hasufell
2014-07-26 15:12                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 11:42                   ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-27 11:50                     ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:01                       ` [gentoo-dev] Behaving productively on the list Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-27 12:04                         ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:07                           ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-27 12:26                             ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:06                       ` [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps Samuli Suominen
2014-07-27 12:31                         ` hasufell
2014-07-27 13:11                           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 11:54                     ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 11:57                       ` hasufell
2014-07-27 13:20                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 13:47                     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-28  6:35                       ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-30  4:45                     ` Alexander Tsoy
2014-07-30  5:36                       ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-30  7:22                         ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-30  7:38                         ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-30 11:18                           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-30 11:23                             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-30 12:38                             ` Samuli Suominen
2014-08-12 21:32                               ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 12:56                 ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-08-01 21:38                   ` [gentoo-dev] PMS (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Martin Vaeth
2014-08-02  5:19                     ` [gentoo-dev] PMS Ulrich Mueller
2014-08-02  9:30                       ` [gentoo-dev] PMS Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:08           ` [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-23 13:33       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25  1:45         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-25 15:01           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:53             ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-25 18:26             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 13:29             ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:20           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-25  8:53         ` [gentoo-dev] " Pacho Ramos
2014-07-26 13:36           ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:32         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:44           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 13:16             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:20               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:46                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:53                   ` hasufell
2014-07-26 14:54                   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:11                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:22                       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:40                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:51                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28 14:30                         ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 14:43                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28 15:38                             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 19:31                               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-24 22:06       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-25  8:51         ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-25 17:15         ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-25 17:36           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 17:39             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-26 17:47             ` Taahir Ahmed
2014-07-26 18:21               ` Taahir Ahmed
2014-07-26 13:41         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:46           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:01             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:09               ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:14                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-21 20:56   ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:13     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 21:22       ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 22:52       ` William Hubbs
2014-07-22  0:36         ` hasufell
2014-07-22  9:42           ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 19:42             ` William Hubbs
2014-07-22  1:05         ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2014-07-22  5:10           ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:06             ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26  4:36               ` Patrick Lauer
2014-07-26 13:55                 ` [gentoo-dev] binpkg (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 19:18                 ` [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22 22:52         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22  1:34     ` Alexandre Rostovtsev
2014-07-22 23:13       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  2:05         ` Alexandre Rostovtsev
2014-07-26 14:02           ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:29             ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:18               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-25  7:34       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-22 22:29   ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-21 21:52 ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22  7:25   ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-22 18:44     ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-22 18:50       ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 23:28         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  8:53       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-26 14:12       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 22:43         ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27  7:16           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 10:16             ` [gentoo-dev] Avoiding rebuilds (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-27 12:19               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 13:45               ` [gentoo-dev] Avoiding rebuilds hasufell
2014-07-28  5:49                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 15:15                   ` Brian Dolbec
2014-08-01  9:35                   ` Steven J. Long
2014-08-01 20:49                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-08-02 13:19                       ` Steven J. Long
2014-08-03 15:14                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 10:43             ` [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 12:04               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:46                 ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:57                   ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-28 18:27                 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 18:35                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-22 19:05     ` [gentoo-dev] " Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:32       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  1:21       ` hasufell
2014-07-23 13:34       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 19:26     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-22 23:21     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 12:19       ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22  8:21   ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-22  8:32     ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
2014-07-22  9:25       ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-22 17:03         ` Sven Vermeulen
2014-07-22 17:11           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 17:32             ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22  8:33     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:36     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23 12:14       ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-25 21:59         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 17:12           ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-26 19:21             ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 19:30               ` Michael Palimaka
2014-08-12 21:49                 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 14:25       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-08-12 22:11         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22 11:58   ` [gentoo-dev] " hasufell
2014-07-26 14:09   ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:22     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:33       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:36         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:40           ` hasufell
2014-07-27  7:46             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:32     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:27       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:29         ` hasufell
2014-07-26 16:10           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:35         ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:59           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 16:02             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:36               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 16:45                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:39         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:05           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 16:14             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:28               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 16:34                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 18:36               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 18:42                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 16:27                   ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 14:05   ` [gentoo-dev] " "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 14:42     ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 14:56       ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 14:59         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 15:09           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 15:16             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 17:02               ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 17:11                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 17:16                   ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 17:24                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28  6:59         ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-28  8:26           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28  9:28             ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-28 13:12               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 13:29                 ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-28 18:50                   ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 18:57                     ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-29  7:33                       ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-29  9:12                         ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-29 10:20                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-29 10:47                         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 15:44       ` [gentoo-dev] " Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 15:52         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 16:05           ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-28  4:43             ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 20:24       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-27 20:51         ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 20:56           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 21:27             ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 21:34               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:50                 ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 21:54                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:14           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-27 21:08         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:17           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-27 21:26             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:33               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 21:39                 ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-28  5:21                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 22:06                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2014-07-28 16:29           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 16:44             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-28  5:06         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 14:42     ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-22 21:47 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-25  5:44   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-25 22:09     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26  5:21       ` Duncan

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