[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
"Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):

> mr_bones_    15/06/02 03:58:35
> 
>   Modified:             gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog
>   Log:
>   add slot dep for repoman
>   
>   (Portage version: 2.2.18/cvs/Linux x86_64, unsigned Manifest commit)
> 
> Revision  Changes    Path
> 1.5                  games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild
> 
> file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.5&view=markup
> plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.5&content-type=text/plain
> diff : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?r1=1.4&r2=1.5
> 
> Index: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v
> retrieving revision 1.4
> retrieving revision 1.5
> diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
> --- gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild	25 Mar 2015 13:51:47 -0000	1.4
> +++ gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild	2 Jun 2015 03:58:35 -0000	1.5
> @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
>  # Copyright 1999-2015 Gentoo Foundation
>  # Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
> -# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v 1.4 2015/03/25 13:51:47 ago Exp $
> +# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v 1.5 2015/06/02 03:58:35 mr_bones_ Exp $
>  
>  EAPI=5
>  inherit eutils games
> @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@
>  KEYWORDS="amd64 ~arm ~ppc ~ppc64 x86 ~amd64-linux ~x86-linux ~ppc-macos"
>  IUSE="readline"
>  
> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
>  	>=sys-libs/ncurses-5.2-r3"
>  RDEPEND=${DEPEND}

This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Michael Palimaka]

On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> 
>> mr_bones_    15/06/02 03:58:35
>>
>>   Modified:             gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog
>>   Log:
>>   add slot dep for repoman
>>   
>>   (Portage version: 2.2.18/cvs/Linux x86_64, unsigned Manifest commit)
>>
>> Revision  Changes    Path
>> 1.5                  games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild
>>
>> file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.5&view=markup
>> plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.5&content-type=text/plain
>> diff : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild?r1=1.4&r2=1.5
>>
>> Index: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild
>> ===================================================================
>> RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v
>> retrieving revision 1.4
>> retrieving revision 1.5
>> diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
>> --- gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild	25 Mar 2015 13:51:47 -0000	1.4
>> +++ gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild	2 Jun 2015 03:58:35 -0000	1.5
>> @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
>>  # Copyright 1999-2015 Gentoo Foundation
>>  # Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
>> -# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v 1.4 2015/03/25 13:51:47 ago Exp $
>> +# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/games-board/gnugo/gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild,v 1.5 2015/06/02 03:58:35 mr_bones_ Exp $
>>  
>>  EAPI=5
>>  inherit eutils games
>> @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@
>>  KEYWORDS="amd64 ~arm ~ppc ~ppc64 x86 ~amd64-linux ~x86-linux ~ppc-macos"
>>  IUSE="readline"
>>  
>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
>>  	>=sys-libs/ncurses-5.2-r3"
>>  RDEPEND=${DEPEND}
> 
> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
> 

Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
> > Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
> > "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> >> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
> >> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
> > 
> > This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
> > them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
> 
> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.

in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
improvement though.

we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.

i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Michael Palimaka]

On 02/06/15 21:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
>>> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
>>> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
>>>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
>>>
>>> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
>>> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
>>
>> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.
> 
> in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
> compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
> improvement though.
> 
> we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.
> 
> i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
> subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
> dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
> -mike
> 

Neither readline nor ncurses define an explicit subslot, so I don't know
what their future meaning might be.

While this is not likely to ever present a problem for ncurses or
readline, the trend of blindly adding := to all dependencies without
knowing what it actually means is concerning. It would be nice to have
some information first, for example:

* readline subslot will be bumped when libreadline breaks, most packages
want the operator
* poppler has some libraries with stable interfaces, only use the
operator if you link against unstable libpoppler (not libpoppler-qt4)
* libfoo has an additional private, unstable api used only by specific
packages - don't use the operator unless you know what you're doing

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 02 Jun 2015 23:07, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> On 02/06/15 21:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> >> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
> >>> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
> >>> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> >>>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
> >>>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
> >>>
> >>> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
> >>> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
> >>
> >> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.
> > 
> > in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
> > compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
> > improvement though.
> > 
> > we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.
> > 
> > i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
> > subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
> > dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
> 
> Neither readline nor ncurses define an explicit subslot, so I don't know
> what their future meaning might be.

their meaning would be the reasonable one -- to track the SONAME.  while it 
hasn't been deployed yet (due to those packages being on EAPI=4), i don't know 
what other value you'd expect it to be.  they've both broken their SONAMEs in 
the past.  readline in particular has been every major version (4.x, 5.x, 6.x).
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Michael Palimaka]

On 02/06/15 23:52, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 02 Jun 2015 23:07, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>> On 02/06/15 21:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>>>> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
>>>>> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
>>>>> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>>>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
>>>>>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
>>>>>
>>>>> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
>>>>> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.
>>>
>>> in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
>>> compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
>>> improvement though.
>>>
>>> we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.
>>>
>>> i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
>>> subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
>>> dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
>>
>> Neither readline nor ncurses define an explicit subslot, so I don't know
>> what their future meaning might be.
> 
> their meaning would be the reasonable one -- to track the SONAME.  while it 
> hasn't been deployed yet (due to those packages being on EAPI=4), i don't know 
> what other value you'd expect it to be.  they've both broken their SONAMEs in 
> the past.  readline in particular has been every major version (4.x, 5.x, 6.x).
> -mike
> 

Since you've clarified the future meaning for ncurses/readline, it's not
a problem.

The point was it's not a good idea to use the operator unless without
knowing what it means for the package in question (since a subslot can
be used to handle a number of different situations, as I wrote previously).

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 03 Jun 2015 00:28, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> On 02/06/15 23:52, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On 02 Jun 2015 23:07, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> >> On 02/06/15 21:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >>> On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> >>>> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
> >>>>> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
> >>>>> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> >>>>>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
> >>>>>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
> >>>>> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.
> >>>
> >>> in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
> >>> compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
> >>> improvement though.
> >>>
> >>> we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.
> >>>
> >>> i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
> >>> subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
> >>> dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
> >>
> >> Neither readline nor ncurses define an explicit subslot, so I don't know
> >> what their future meaning might be.
> > 
> > their meaning would be the reasonable one -- to track the SONAME.  while it 
> > hasn't been deployed yet (due to those packages being on EAPI=4), i don't know 
> > what other value you'd expect it to be.  they've both broken their SONAMEs in 
> > the past.  readline in particular has been every major version (4.x, 5.x, 6.x).
> 
> Since you've clarified the future meaning for ncurses/readline, it's not
> a problem.
> 
> The point was it's not a good idea to use the operator unless without
> knowing what it means for the package in question (since a subslot can
> be used to handle a number of different situations, as I wrote previously).

you make a reasonable point, but i'd consider some of your examples as 
(ab|mis)use of subslots.  their purpose is to track ABI changes so as
to signal rebuilds.  if they've been appropriated for other uses, then
perhaps those libraries are doing it wrong ?  i expect subslots to do
one thing (what PMS describes/intends) and would be surprised to find
out that some packages are doing something else.
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in games-board/gnugo: gnugo-3.9.1-r1.ebuild ChangeLog

[Michael Palimaka]

On 03/06/15 01:30, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 03 Jun 2015 00:28, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>> On 02/06/15 23:52, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> On 02 Jun 2015 23:07, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>>>> On 02/06/15 21:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>>>> On 02 Jun 2015 20:47, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/06/15 17:04, Michał Górny wrote:
>>>>>>> Dnia 2015-06-02, o godz. 03:58:35
>>>>>>> "Michael Sterrett (mr_bones_)" <mr_bones_@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>>>>>> -DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
>>>>>>>> +DEPEND="readline? ( sys-libs/readline:0 )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This should be actually := (or :0=) for both deps since gnugo links to
>>>>>>> them. This also applies to your remaining 'warning silencing' commits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Blindly adding the subslot dep is a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> in this particular case, the subslot usage is what we want since we're 
>>>>> compiling+linking against it.  using readline:0 vs readline is still an 
>>>>> improvement though.
>>>>>
>>>>> we also want a subslot on ncurses since we compile+link against it.
>>>>>
>>>>> i think it's pretty uncommon to use readline in a package and not want a 
>>>>> subslot.  your package would have to be doing something uncommon like
>>>>> dlopening it since the only thing readline provides is a library ...
>>>>
>>>> Neither readline nor ncurses define an explicit subslot, so I don't know
>>>> what their future meaning might be.
>>>
>>> their meaning would be the reasonable one -- to track the SONAME.  while it 
>>> hasn't been deployed yet (due to those packages being on EAPI=4), i don't know 
>>> what other value you'd expect it to be.  they've both broken their SONAMEs in 
>>> the past.  readline in particular has been every major version (4.x, 5.x, 6.x).
>>
>> Since you've clarified the future meaning for ncurses/readline, it's not
>> a problem.
>>
>> The point was it's not a good idea to use the operator unless without
>> knowing what it means for the package in question (since a subslot can
>> be used to handle a number of different situations, as I wrote previously).
> 
> you make a reasonable point, but i'd consider some of your examples as 
> (ab|mis)use of subslots.  their purpose is to track ABI changes so as
> to signal rebuilds.  if they've been appropriated for other uses, then
> perhaps those libraries are doing it wrong ?  i expect subslots to do
> one thing (what PMS describes/intends) and would be surprised to find
> out that some packages are doing something else.
> -mike
> 

They're still tracking ABI changes to signal rebuilds - they just don't
apply to all consumers. poppler's subslot tracks the main libpoppler
which frequently breaks, but the package also provides libpoppler-qt4
which is stable - these consumers never need rebuilding.