From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NycHQ-00087T-De for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:43:12 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A2D5CE0AD8; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 02:43:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bw0-f223.google.com (mail-bw0-f223.google.com [209.85.218.223]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203D3E0A86 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 02:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz23 with SMTP id 23so748009bwz.26 for ; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:received:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=du+DqyZSlRpqfaRSWhBbOfR/moKXXkg1nUaG94FuE0Y=; b=inNmkZLJzKwGUxPbjYyDEJGs3aXJ/ExWwrNoWhLjcx0/iOFq8Nwij13nfMjztw8s8F mz3rBI9ydl6pemIeooBwZ3z4lOXW5JuvNNcj+8gYdHvHehS/Jp4GeLLLYLebj2dtJYg9 24zsf8V7ym0EpKGM50GhXZX2SD/DyyXS0pSKA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=FuNednP8LVN9kpxnlmbz3xthuovqj9lP345pAHB70beUf8q460tnSX3pUiL6Q30fu+ u9iqf7bujRO7mMjfU7hVK5Nz57KcCWLtSjRqGsemF0qRzpnGZoqZHRsAo9XtZqiZiEXu ORIxcgEnoS2k3fp9naiHXrjM7hYOGPEvXklXs= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: yngwin.gentoo@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.33.199 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100404181333.6dab27c2@angelstorm> References: <20100403163010.1897d663@mail.a3li.li> <4BB7D11F.7060207@gentoo.org> <20100404003152.4b2012da@angelstorm> <20100404123323.1689e9d4@angelstorm> <20100404181333.6dab27c2@angelstorm> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 04:43:02 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 64eb881a0f85a301 Received: by 10.204.22.20 with SMTP id l20mr727556bkb.118.1270435382439; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [Gentoo Phoenix] an official Gentoo wiki From: Ben de Groot To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 7bd3e9a7-111a-413d-a8de-10eb847e2187 X-Archives-Hash: ebba2e165aa593c5ffec0480b94de6ac On 5 April 2010 03:13, Joshua Saddler wrote: > Let the renderer take care of the final rendering, as really, tags and ma= rkup are all arbitrary. What should matter is how it appears in your webbro= wser, since that'll vary from the source view anyways. So why are you such a staunch defender of GuideXML then? If markup is arbitrary really, then why not allow people to use what is convenient? > . . . I hope you aren't seriously suggested rST as the wiki format. I already did. I realize I may be in the minority, but I've become quite a fan of the format. It's easy, quite elegant, has a full set of features and is quite flexible. And it is widely used outside of Gentoo. I hope there will be at least the possibility of using rst in the Gentoo Wiki. >> > Mediawiki mostly involves memorizing how many quote or tick marks you = use. >> >> The beauty is: you don't have to memorize it, as it is just a click of >> a button on the editor interface away. > > And not everyone will want to do that. I certainly don't like clicking ar= ound when it's easier and faster for me to just type the code myself. So you don't have to. The wiki software in itself is not limiting, so it's a question of configuration and agreeing on what to use. > Really, you're mostly making a case for a graphical XML editor like Beaco= n, rather than making a case for a wiki. :) That would already be a big improvement, yes. > That's your problem, then. Do you know what semantic means? Yes, I do. No need to be condescending. > But you're not a web author, I am, altho not as active lately. > Why the hell do you keep bringing up HTML? Stop comparing GuideXML with H= TML. Treat them as two separate languages, please. Because clearly GuideXML is based on HTML. And anyone who knows HTML will likely be confused by some features of GuideXML. I can't treat them as completely separate, as there is too much overlap. > I only mentioned GuideXML in the context of "it's easier to learn because= it has fewer tags than HTML" -- you operate under the mistaken assumption = that GuideXML should be *like* HTML, No, I wish it weren't, but it *is* like HTML. > and that HTML has too many tags. I never said that. > You assume that everyone comes from an HTML background and thus will be c= onfused by GuideXML. I would think that most people that become involved with Gentoo have most likely been exposed to some HTML coding. >> What do you mean? You can predefine styles in your CSS to express your >> "textual color palette" (if I understand correctly what you meant by >> that). There is advanced code syntax highlighting available, for >> example using GeSHi. > > Okay, then you also need a way to get those styles into your document by = coming up with new tags or wiki markup. > > is a variable in GuideXML, and it'll be colored yellow. You mark th= is variable in a 
 block with the  tag, which is created just for =
this purpose. How do you accomplish this in, say, Mediawiki syntax? Without=
 trying to recycle some crap bit of HTML or tacking on inline styles.

You can use syntax highlighting or templates.

> Do all the wikis out there have solutions for adding custom markup/tags?

All? Probably not out of the box. You could always hack the source
code of course. ;)

> And yes, clearly GuideXML and metadata.xml are some of your weak areas if=
 you have to keep looking up the basics. However, with practice you *will* =
get better. :)

If there would be a need for that, then yes, I would get better.

Anyway, this exchange has gone well beyond the original scope of the
thread, and neither of us seems to have come much closer to convincing
the other. So I'll leave it at that.

--=20
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux Qt project lead developer