From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GJmgE-0003uY-OX for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 07:46:11 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with SMTP id k837j4tR005066; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:45:04 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k837fwmV027507 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:41:58 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA9B64AD2 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:41:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10618-01 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:41:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0686F64948 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:41:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1GJmbx-0005Rk-9B for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:41:45 +0200 Received: from al94.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([80.53.169.94]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:41:45 +0200 Received: from siryes by al94.internetdsl.tpnet.pl with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:41:45 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: Wiktor Wandachowicz Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: The Age of the Universe Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 07:41:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <44F95E3E.9000708@gentoo.org> <44F96559.6010003@gentoo.org> <44F96881.90806@gentoo.org> <200609021426.03618.kugelfang@gentoo.org> <44F988FB.3070001@gentoo.org> <44F98BB5.5010402@gentoo.org> <44F98FAF.5020508@gentoo.org> <44F991D7.9060905@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 80.53.169.94 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; pl; rv:1.8.0.6) Gecko/20060728 Firefox/1.5.0.6) Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Archives-Salt: 7a1ca7f4-df93-4099-b8ad-11dc5a92a8f8 X-Archives-Hash: 9ada175da1c20ac9d111afd5486ec3fa Simon Stelling wrote: > Edgar Hucek wrote: > > I know my tools but not necessarly the normal user who wanna use gentoo > > and is ending frustrated. > > If the users are too lazy to read the documentation, why should we care > about them? Because we risk that Gentoo may receive the "user-UN-friendly" label and become irrelevant in the long run? I know it ain't gonna happen, but still. Both Edgar and you have some valid points. He refers mostly to the out-of-box experience, which includes compiling GNOME and its dependencies at the install time. With USE="accessibility" enabled, which makes perfect sense for people with disabilities. And then the first-ever Gentoo installation breaks on the speech-tools and festival. How would *you* feel in such case? You OTOH bring to the table a fact that developers shouldn't be that much concerned with the stabilization/testing of packages before new release of installation media. But new releases *ARE* targeted specifically at new users and it's them who suffer the most. Next to it is the reputation of Gentoo and its developers. Edgar's call was targeted mostly at releng and QA teams, who should poke developers to decrease number of similar problems. I maintain a bunch of Debian/sparc, Debian/i386, Gentoo/amd64, Gentoo/x86, Solaris/sparc, Ubuntu/i686 boxes and mind you, out-of-box experience at install time means A LOT. More respect to the users => more respect to Gentoo. Regards, Wiktor Wandachowicz PS. I'm already on the CC list of bug #116030 for the same reasons, but I've been mostly quiet because I do know my tools ;) But OTOH I've been already running Gentoo for a while.... -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list