[gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Doug Goldstein]

Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
default? Especially after a long time of kerberos not having a
maintainer (thanks mueli for joining the Gentoo club and maintaining it
now). Our current maintainer is working his butt off to get it up to
speed but it's not there yet. I don't see what features or benefits it
adds to the average user.

If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.

--
Doug Goldstein

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Marius Mauch]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
> default?

AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).

> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.

Agreed (independent of the current breakage).

Marius

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Doug Goldstein]

Marius Mauch wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
> Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>   
>> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
>> default?
>>     
>
> AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
> joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).
>   
So let's use EAPI=1 in just the samba ebuild and do +kerberos in there.

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Jeremy Olexa]

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Marius Mauch <genone@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
> Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
>> default?
>
> AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
> joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).

Sounds like a candidate for USE defaults, EAPI-1. Seems like a silly
design choice to add it globally, IMHO.

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Dawid Węgliński]

On Friday 31 of October 2008 19:17:45 Doug Goldstein wrote:
> Marius Mauch wrote:
> > On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
> >
> > Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
> >> default?
> >
> > AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
> > joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).
>
> So let's use EAPI=1 in just the samba ebuild and do +kerberos in there.

samba needs USE="ads ldap" to join NT domain.

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Doug Goldstein]

Dawid Węgliński wrote:
> On Friday 31 of October 2008 19:17:45 Doug Goldstein wrote:
>   
>> Marius Mauch wrote:
>>     
>>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
>>>
>>> Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
>>>> default?
>>>>         
>>> AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
>>> joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).
>>>       
>> So let's use EAPI=1 in just the samba ebuild and do +kerberos in there.
>>     
>
> samba needs USE="ads ldap" to join NT domain.
>
>   
heh. You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say that samba
doesn't have a kerberos USE flag.

So any objections to me nuking this USE flag pronto?

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Dawid Węgliński]

On Friday 31 of October 2008 19:41:26 Doug Goldstein wrote:
> Dawid Węgliński wrote:
> > On Friday 31 of October 2008 19:17:45 Doug Goldstein wrote:
> >> Marius Mauch wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:52:59 -0400
> >>>
> >>> Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>>> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
> >>>> default?
> >>>
> >>> AFAIK it was added so that the default profile provides support for
> >>> joining a Windows domain (same for the ldap flag).
> >>
> >> So let's use EAPI=1 in just the samba ebuild and do +kerberos in there.
> >
> > samba needs USE="ads ldap" to join NT domain.
>
> heh. You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say that samba
> doesn't have a kerberos USE flag.
>
> So any objections to me nuking this USE flag pronto?

I'd be +1 to drop kerberos useflag, and probably make use of eapi1 in 
nfs-utils and such, where kerberos would be more apropriate.

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Michael Hammer]

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* Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> [081031 15:53]:
> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.

++

greets, mueli

p.S.: thx for the suggestion cardoe!

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hammer    |    <mueli@gentoo.org>     |     Graz, AT
Gentoo Developer (Kerberos)  |  http://www.michael-hammer.at

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Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Joe Peterson]

Michael Hammer wrote:
> * Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> [081031 15:53]:
>> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.
> 
> ++

I was also wondering why kerberos was on by default - I definitely
approve of nuking it.

					-Joe

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Mart Raudsepp]

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On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 15:50 -0600, Joe Peterson wrote:
> Michael Hammer wrote:
> > * Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> [081031 15:53]:
> >> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.
> > 
> > ++
> 
> I was also wondering why kerberos was on by default - I definitely
> approve of nuking it.

I'm believe the primary reason is for release LiveCD's.
They ship with evolution-exchange, and that requires
evolution/evolution-data-server to be built with USE=kerberos
They don't do /etc/portage business, so it's a global USE flag to get
things like GRP packages to work right.


Regards,
-- 
Mart Raudsepp
Gentoo Developer
Mail: leio@gentoo.org
Weblog: http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/leio

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Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Andrew Gaffney]

Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 15:50 -0600, Joe Peterson wrote:
>> Michael Hammer wrote:
>>> * Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> [081031 15:53]:
>>>> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.
>>> ++
>> I was also wondering why kerberos was on by default - I definitely
>> approve of nuking it.
> 
> I'm believe the primary reason is for release LiveCD's.
> They ship with evolution-exchange, and that requires
> evolution/evolution-data-server to be built with USE=kerberos
> They don't do /etc/portage business, so it's a global USE flag to get
> things like GRP packages to work right.

If that's the case, then I say whack it from global USE and change it to an IUSE 
default (or whatever is in vogue these days) for eds.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                                 http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer            Catalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Mart Raudsepp]

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On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 19:22 -0500, Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 15:50 -0600, Joe Peterson wrote:
> >> Michael Hammer wrote:
> >>> * Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> [081031 15:53]:
> >>>> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.
> >>> ++
> >> I was also wondering why kerberos was on by default - I definitely
> >> approve of nuking it.
> > 
> > I'm believe the primary reason is for release LiveCD's.
> > They ship with evolution-exchange, and that requires
> > evolution/evolution-data-server to be built with USE=kerberos
> > They don't do /etc/portage business, so it's a global USE flag to get
> > things like GRP packages to work right.
> 
> If that's the case, then I say whack it from global USE and change it to an IUSE 
> default (or whatever is in vogue these days) for eds.

From GNOME teams perspective I don't believe that is a good idea. Users
wanting exchange support aren't hardly the majority of evolution users.

-- 
Mart Raudsepp
Gentoo Developer
Mail: leio@gentoo.org
Weblog: http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/leio

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[Josh Saddler]

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Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> I'm believe the primary reason is for release LiveCD's.
> They ship with evolution-exchange, and that requires
> evolution/evolution-data-server to be built with USE=kerberos
> They don't do /etc/portage business, so it's a global USE flag to get
> things like GRP packages to work right.

Yes, but not just for the LiveCDs. I spoke with wolf31o2 about this some
time ago, asking why it was turned on in the desktop profile. He said it
was for Evolution stuff, not just on the LiveCDs though. Also supposed
to be useful for folks who want lots of Exchange and other stuff for
their rich email client.

I'm also in favor of punting it from the desktop profiles; doing so puts
me that much closer to actually using it.

Long as we're discussing things to punt, here's some stuff to kick out
of the desktop profile:

mikmod - Seriously, how many folks make it a habit to listen to .MOD
music all the time? Even netlabels like Monotonik, which started *out*
as .mod, make it harder to find their old .mod stuff.

ldap - Punt for the same reasons kerberos is being punted.

eds - Down with more Evolution things! Though possibly not ideal for
Gnome user?

esd - no one should be using Enlightenment Sound Daemon, period. Ain't
it deprecated, anyway? No worky?

emboss - Seriously. Who needs the European Biology Open Software Suite
on a *desktop* oriented system?



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[Olivier Crête]

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On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 19:44 -0700, Josh Saddler wrote:
> mikmod - Seriously, how many folks make it a habit to listen to .MOD
> music all the time? Even netlabels like Monotonik, which started *out*
> as .mod, make it harder to find their old .mod stuff.

Agree

> ldap - Punt for the same reasons kerberos is being punted.

Thats used by some public services like keyserver.pgp.com, so I think it
should stay there.

> eds - Down with more Evolution things! Though possibly not ideal for
> Gnome user?

That's a non-starter, we need to keep it in the gnome panel to have the
nice integration.. There is an argument to be made that it shouldn't be
a use flag in the panel maybe.

> esd - no one should be using Enlightenment Sound Daemon, period. Ain't
> it deprecated, anyway? No worky?

DIE DIE.. Maybe we should replace it with pulseaudio ?

> emboss - Seriously. Who needs the European Biology Open Software Suite
> on a *desktop* oriented system?

....

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[David Leverton]

On Saturday 01 November 2008 02:44:50 Josh Saddler wrote:
> emboss - Seriously. Who needs the European Biology Open Software Suite
> on a *desktop* oriented system?

That flag is only used by a few sci-biology packages, so if you don't have any 
of those installed, it doesn't matter whether the flag is on or off.  IIRC 
the argument for having it on was that the majority of people who /do/ use 
those packages will want it.

I suppose one could say that it should be set in IUSE or profile package.use 
instead, but IMHO, if there are enough packages using it to justify making it 
a global flag in the first place, and all of them need the same default, it 
makes sense to set the default globally (*cough*ocamlopt*cough*).

Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:39 PM, David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 01 November 2008 02:44:50 Josh Saddler wrote:
>> emboss - Seriously. Who needs the European Biology Open Software Suite
>> on a *desktop* oriented system?
>
> That flag is only used by a few sci-biology packages, so if you don't have any
> of those installed, it doesn't matter whether the flag is on or off.  IIRC
> the argument for having it on was that the majority of people who /do/ use
> those packages will want it.
>
> I suppose one could say that it should be set in IUSE or profile package.use
> instead, but IMHO, if there are enough packages using it to justify making it
> a global flag in the first place, and all of them need the same default, it
> makes sense to set the default globally (*cough*ocamlopt*cough*).

Why not use EAPI=1 for those ebuilds and turn the flag on by default?
Same for the panel stuff for which +eds is good for integration? I
think EAPI=1 +use should be used to de-pollute the desktop etc
profiles :)

IIRC, there are enough stable versions of portage with EAPI=1 support.


-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[David Leverton]

On Monday 03 November 2008 04:29:34 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> Why not use EAPI=1 for those ebuilds and turn the flag on by default?

Well, as I said, it seems more sensible to me to set the default once, instead 
of once for each ebuild.  I don't particularly care, though, just making sure 
people know why it was there in the first place, and if they still want to 
change it, so be it.

Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

[Doug Goldstein]

Doug Goldstein wrote:
> Someone remind me again why we have the kerberos USE flag enabled by
> default? Especially after a long time of kerberos not having a
> maintainer (thanks mueli for joining the Gentoo club and maintaining it
> now). Our current maintainer is working his butt off to get it up to
> speed but it's not there yet. I don't see what features or benefits it
> adds to the average user.
>
> If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.
>
>   
I've removed this USE flag from the desktop profile and created bug
#245530 for handling evolution-data-server.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=245530

--
Doug Goldstein

[gentoo-dev] Re: Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[Steve Long]

David Leverton wrote:

> On Monday 03 November 2008 04:29:34 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>> Why not use EAPI=1 for those ebuilds and turn the flag on by default?
> 
> Well, as I said, it seems more sensible to me to set the default once,
> instead
> of once for each ebuild.  I don't particularly care, though, just making
> sure people know why it was there in the first place, and if they still
> want to change it, so be it.

I concur, it is more sensible. Dunno how you get round the maintenance
issue, apart from scripts around the time someone leaves or sth. Maybe "if
they're all/substantively from an eclass, it definitely must not be in a
profile" would be a good policy.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Flags to punt (including: kerberos USE flag)

[Tobias Scherbaum]

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Josh Saddler wrote:
> Long as we're discussing things to punt, here's some stuff to kick out
> of the desktop profile:

and for the server profiles there's

mailwrapper - merely broken, nothing useful at all

  Tobias

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