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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:00:08 +0100
From: Geralt <usr.gentoo@googlemail.com>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] app-admin/eselect needs YOUR help
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On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:37:42 -0800
> Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Open and public debate about the right way to do things does take
>> longer, and it's something you certainly participate in quite
>> frequently so I'm surprised to hear you badmouth it when it comes to
>> your own ideas.
>
> Open and public debate requires two or more well informed parties who
> are seeking to reach the best solution regardless of who proposed it,
> and a deciding body who are prepared to go for the best solution even
> if it isn't universally popular. This sometimes happens with Gentoo,
> but unfortunately all too often it's one of these instead:
>
> * A good proposal gets a few incorrect objections from people who
> don't understand it and aren't prepared to put in the effort to
> become well informed. The Council then uses these objections as an
> excuse to sit on the proposal and do nothing for months, because
> making a decision is harder than maintaining the status quo.
>
> * A good proposal gets a whole load of silly, trivial and nonsensical
> objections from sockpuppeting trolls who don't like the people who
> came up with the proposal (or sometimes from sockpuppeting trolls who
> suspect that the person who came up with the proposal once spoke to
> the cousin of a cleaner who once worked for the nephew of someone who
> said that the proposal looked sensible...). The Council do not
> dismiss these objections because they don't want to risk upsetting
> anyone.
>
> * A good proposal comes along. Its proof of concept implementation is
> done using a project that is considered by some to risk upsetting the
> status quo. A bunch of people who are involved in the proposal get
> fired.
>
> * A proposal gets implemented without the debate. It's either a lousy
> proposal that we're then stuck with, or a decent proposal that has a
> few flaws that could have been addressed.
>
> This is the kind of 'open and public debate' one would expect from a
> failing government trying to cling to power for a few more years or a
> middle-management-heavy corporation on its last legs. It's fine if you
> want to repaint the bikeshed a slightly nicer shade of magenta, but
> it's a real nuisance for anything serious.
>
> None of the people involved in the decision to fork eselect rather than
> work on it for Gentoo are anything except entirely in favour of open and
> public debate. It's just that they don't exactly have a positive
> experience of that happening within Gentoo...
>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
>
Reminds me so much of
http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/12/05/the-linux-desktops-change-problem/