From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0086158043 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 18:50:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71BBFE2A07; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 18:50:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4E4E2A03 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 18:50:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 20:50:16 +0200 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Arthur Zamarin Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: banning "AI"-backed (LLM/GPT/whatever) contributions to Gentoo To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------CPxAxnDfC9oFtorBax2JYCiT" X-Archives-Salt: 12888589-3379-47f6-bc2c-b839dae4fb13 X-Archives-Hash: 4ceb904bf05493b7a52bb97da1dfec3c This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------CPxAxnDfC9oFtorBax2JYCiT Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------rWGTlDDrclTedC0gcSWvpi6L"; protected-headers="v1" From: Arthur Zamarin To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: banning "AI"-backed (LLM/GPT/whatever) contributions to Gentoo References: In-Reply-To: --------------rWGTlDDrclTedC0gcSWvpi6L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27/02/2024 16.45, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Given the recent spread of the "AI" bubble, I think we really need to > look into formally addressing the related concerns. In my opinion, > at this point the only reasonable course of action would be to safely > ban "AI"-backed contribution entirely. In other words, explicitly > forbid people from using ChatGPT, Bard, GitHub Copilot, and so on, to > create ebuilds, code, documentation, messages, bug reports and so on fo= r > use in Gentoo. >=20 > Just to be clear, I'm talking about our "original" content. We can't d= o > much about upstream projects using it. I support this motion. >=20 > Rationale: >=20 > 1. Copyright concerns. At this point, the copyright situation around > generated content is still unclear. What's pretty clear is that pretty= > much all LLMs are trained on huge corpora of copyrighted material, and > all fancy "AI" companies don't give shit about copyright violations. > In particular, there's a good risk that these tools would yield stuff w= e > can't legally use. I know that GitHub Copilot can be limited to licenses, and even to just the current repository. Even though, I'm not sure that the copyright can be attributed to "me" and not the "AI" - so still gray area. > 2. Quality concerns. LLMs are really great at generating plausibly > looking bullshit. I suppose they can provide good assistance if you ar= e > careful enough, but we can't really rely on all our contributors being > aware of the risks. Let me tell a story. I was interested if I can teach an LLM the ebuild format, as a possible helper tool for devs/non-devs. My prompt got so huge, where I was teaching it all the stuff of ebuilds, where to input the source code (eclasses), and such. At one point, it even managed to output a close enough python distutils-r1 ebuild - the same level that `vim dev-python/${PN}/${PN}-${PV}.ebuild` creates using the gentoo template. Yes, my long work resulted in no gain. For each other ebuild type: cmake, meson, go, rust - I always got garbage ebuild. Yes, it was generating a good DESCRIPTION and HOMEPAGE (simple stuff to copy from upstream) and even 60% accuracy for LICENSE. But did you know we have "intel80386" arch for KEYWORDS? We can RESTRICT=3D"install"? We can use "^cat-pkg/pkg-1" syntax in deps? PATCHES= with http urls inside? And the list goes on. Sometimes it was even funny.= So until a good prompt can be created for gentoo, upon which we *might* reopen discussion, I'm strongly supporting banning AI generating ebuilds. Currently good templates per category, and just copying other ebuilds as starting point, and even just skel.ebuild - all those 3 options bring much better result and less time waste for developers. > 3. Ethical concerns. As pointed out above, the "AI" corporations don't= > give shit about copyright, and don't give shit about people. The AI > bubble is causing huge energy waste. It is giving a great excuse for > layoffs and increasing exploitation of IT workers. It is driving > enshittification of the Internet, it is empowering all kinds of spam > and scam. >=20 Many companies who use AI as reason for layoff are just creating a reasoning out of bad will, or ignorance. The company I work at is using AI tools as a boost for productivity, but at all levels of management they know that AI can't replace a person - best case boost him 5-10%. The current real reason for layoffs is tightening of budget movement cross the industry (just a normal cycle, soon it would get better), so management prefer to layoff not themselves. So yeah, sad world. >=20 > Gentoo has always stood out as something different, something that > worked for people for whom mainstream distros were lacking. I think > adding "made by real people" to the list of our advantages would be > a good thing =E2=80=94 but we need to have policies in place, to make s= ure shit > doesn't flow in. >=20 > Compare with the shitstorm at: > https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 >=20 Great read, really much WTF. This whole repo is just a cluster of AIs competing against each other. --=20 Arthur Zamarin arthurzam@gentoo.org Gentoo Linux developer (Python, pkgcore stack, Arch Teams, GURU) --------------rWGTlDDrclTedC0gcSWvpi6L-- --------------CPxAxnDfC9oFtorBax2JYCiT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE/axFlFuH2ptjtO5EAqCvUD0SBQQFAmXfgGgACgkQAqCvUD0S BQQB+Qf+PP6wY8ypFI8UEsM+ISY0yj7uz3th8eB8xd+/7ZyDiyYG32gMsbTUQoIB J9LiwzCwWniw5GMMjfzOZkDKGvFmZNH8jI736I7ZZPdJTpWljekyL6b04v3NERM3 iFOnVQ44R/hpET38v8HTPcpTdf61SwyJylsoufUALI53yze+DNZL/cyeyjT5VAq+ 31apbq6mxfp7/rZi9BvgQxD7G6uSdLJFUEDlwpFc+nX1OIh176Dg3Icb6Z2zXoFF OpXG1PkuJZs1day/7olwLA1sYIPkJ6Q6IqePS3VLIFQ1V0bQ3UUsEA1TWsUC9USO huJrPZGIlcbFwznkHNYxypGCosRNOw== =Pewk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------CPxAxnDfC9oFtorBax2JYCiT--