[gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

Let me paste last year's mail:

| weeeeeeeeell it's about that time of the year ... time for nominating people 
| for the next Gentoo Council
| 
| for the quick low down:
|  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
|  - anyone can nominate
|  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
| 
| so get with the nominating people !
| 
| for the full details, check out the Council homepage:
| http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/#doc_chap6

Have fun and good luck :)
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

Let me nominate the current council members:

Mike Doty                  kingtaco
Danny van Dyk              kugelfang
Roy Marples                uberlord
Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen  jaervosz
Robin H. Johnson 	   robbat2
Mike Frysinger 	           vapier
Chris Gianelloni 	   wolf31o2

Say YES or NO.
-- 
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Stefan Schweizer]

A good time for a fresh wind in the Gentoo world :)

nominating:

betelgeuse
dberkholz
jokey

Best regards,
Stefan
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Peter Weller]

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I nominate...

Uberlord
tomk
taviso

kthx.

(And no, I don't think there's a reason why they're all brits)

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Markus Ullmann]

nominating:

welp
taviso

others are nominated already ;)

-Jokey

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Markus Ullmann]

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Markus Ullmann schrieb:
> nominating:
> others are nominated already ;)

d'oh, forgot fellow

dertobi123

-Jokey


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Mike Doty]

Thorsten Veller wrote:
> Let me nominate the current council members:
> 
> Mike Doty                  kingtaco
> Danny van Dyk              kugelfang
> Roy Marples                uberlord
> Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen  jaervosz
> Robin H. Johnson 	   robbat2
> Mike Frysinger 	           vapier
> Chris Gianelloni 	   wolf31o2
> 
> Say YES or NO.
Thanks for the nomination, but I'm not interested in another year on the council.

--taco


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Petteri Räty]

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Stefan Schweizer kirjoitti:
> A good time for a fresh wind in the Gentoo world :)
> 
> nominating:
> 
> betelgeuse

\o/

Yea. Somebody likes me or maybe it's just a clever plot done by the
people pulling the strings? I want to be absolutely corrupted, so I accept.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Raúl Porcel]

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- -jokey
- -welp
- -genstef
- -betelgeuse
- -tove
- -uberlord
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hKi03zAYkJRYRtA+6g1Usts=
=yYCL
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-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Davide Cendron]

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I vote for these brave devs:

jokey
betelgeuse
vapier
wolf31o2
genstef
dberkholz
nightmorph

Bye,

-- 
Davide Cendron

Gentoo Documentation Project
Italian Follow Up Translator

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/it/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Petteri Räty]

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Davide Cendron kirjoitti:
> I vote for these brave devs:
> 

Votes happen next month :) You can nominate if you want of course.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Davide Cendron]

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Il Tuesday 03 July 2007 00:32:08 Davide Cendron ha scritto:
> I vote for these brave devs:
>
> jokey
> betelgeuse
> vapier
> wolf31o2
> genstef
> dberkholz
> nightmorph
>
> Bye,

Oooppsss...

s/vote for/nominate

8)

-- 
Davide Cendron

Gentoo Documentation Project
Italian Follow Up Translator

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/it/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Dawid Węgliński]

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Dnia 02-07-2007, pon o godzinie 21:24 +0200, Stefan Schweizer
napisał(a):
> A good time for a fresh wind in the Gentoo world :)
> 
> nominating:
> 
> betelgeuse
> dberkholz
> jokey
> 
> Best regards,
> Stefan

Personally, i'd like to nominate following:

nightmorph
Betelgeuse

Regards :)
-- 
,-----------------------------.
| Dawid Węgliński             |
| cla @ irc.freenode.net      |
| GPG: 295E72D9               |
`-----------------------------'


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Mon, Jul 02, 2007 at 09:10:03PM +0200, Torsten Veller wrote:
> Robin H. Johnson 	   robbat2

No, unfortunately I don't have time to run again. My job has required
ever-increasing amounts of my time. Even my commit stats show just how
much I'm being pressured lately.

Of the tree signing stuff that I originally ran to work on, here's the
CVS space I was working on it.

http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/users/robbat2/tree-signing-gleps/

A short status report on it:
00 - summary, and review of past attempts - needs techreview + copyedit, but completed.
04 - Manifest2 hashes - I believe that the Portage codebase has moved on, more might work.
01 - Distribution process security - needs content polishing and review.
02 - Developer security - lots of work here, this part will probably
     never happen. Probably should just drop.
03 - GnuPG Policies - nothing done yet, but this is mainly a summary of
     some of the list posts from last year.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer & Council Member
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

* Raúl Porcel <armin76@gentoo.org>:
> - -tove

No, thanks. Not my job.
-- 
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Jan Kundrát]

I nominate Wernfried Haas (amne). Based on a thorough and detailed 
review of Gentoo state-of-affair that we did together over several beers 
some time ago when he was at Prague, I'm sure he's one of the best 
candidates for the human, caring part of the Council.

Anyone pointing out at any old dirty laundry concerning Wernfried will 
be slapped to death with an empty beer pint. This is no assault, but 
rather a simple matter of fact.

Cheers,
-jkt
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Steve Long]

Jan Kundrát wrote:
> I nominate Wernfried Haas (amne). Based on a thorough and detailed
> review of Gentoo state-of-affair that we did together over several beers
> some time ago when he was at Prague, I'm sure he's one of the best
> candidates for the human, caring part of the Council.
> 
I second that, simply because his teams do such a good job. I have felt
unfairly treated, I admit, but I'd rather they were too tight than too lax.
And a cooling off is refreshing! Amne has always handled the situation
professionally when things were tense, and has always seemed chilled at
other times.

Dunno about this cz conspiracy tho.. heh no-one will vote for him now ;)


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[George Prowse]

Torsten Veller wrote:
> Let me paste last year's mail:
> 
> | weeeeeeeeell it's about that time of the year ... time for nominating people 
> | for the next Gentoo Council
> | 
> | for the quick low down:
> |  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
> |  - anyone can nominate
> |  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
> | 
> | so get with the nominating people !
> | 
> | for the full details, check out the Council homepage:
> | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/#doc_chap6
> 
> Have fun and good luck :)

I nominate

wolf31o2
Uberlord
tomk
Johnm
amne
welp
nightmorph
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

["José Luis Rivero (yoswink)"]

Hi all:

Torsten Veller escribió:
> Let me paste last year's mail:
> 
> | weeeeeeeeell it's about that time of the year ... time for nominating people 
> | for the next Gentoo Council
> | 
> | for the quick low down:
> |  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
> |  - anyone can nominate
> |  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
> | 
> | so get with the nominating people !
> | 
> | for the full details, check out the Council homepage:
> | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/#doc_chap6
> 

I've just rescued the xml we used the last year and update the current 
nominations. The list is in:

http://dev.gentoo.org/~yoswink/council-2007.xml

I will try to update it often, but please, tell me if I miss something 
or if there is some error.

Thanks.

-- 
Jose Luis Rivero <yoswink@gentoo.org>
Gentoo/Doc Gentoo/Alpha
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Petteri Räty]

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José Luis Rivero (yoswink) kirjoitti:
> I've just rescued the xml we used the last year and update the current
> nominations. The list is in:
> 
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~yoswink/council-2007.xml
> 
> I will try to update it often, but please, tell me if I miss something
> or if there is some error.
> 

How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think it's
any more special than any other TLP.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Raúl Porcel]

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good, now my nick is armin79 :D
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Peter Weller]

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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:50:51 +0200
Raúl Porcel <armin76@gentoo.org> wrote:

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> Hash: SHA1
> 
> good, now my nick is armin79 :D
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(Don't worry, yoswink, i changed it to armin75 once ;) )

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 03:10:10PM +0200, Jan Kundrát wrote:
>  I nominate Wernfried Haas (amne). Based on a thorough and detailed review of 
>  Gentoo state-of-affair that we did together over several beers some time ago 
>  when he was at Prague, I'm sure he's one of the best candidates for the 
>  human, caring part of the Council.

Thanks Jan and others for the nomination. Once again this proves that
beer solves all promblems. ;-)
Until now I haven't had time to actually think about accepting it, but
i hope everything around me calms down a bit in the next days.
In any way i feel flattered by the trust put in me by some of the
folks here - thanks.

>  Anyone pointing out at any old dirty laundry concerning Wernfried will be 
>  slapped to death with an empty beer pint. This is no assault, but rather a 
>  simple matter of fact.

Alternatively, we could just get a refill. :-)

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org
Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org
forum-mods (at) gentoo.org
#gentoo-forums (freenode)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Vlastimil Babka]

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Raúl Porcel wrote:
> good, now my nick is armin79 :D

Lies! No way your karma would go up! Cheater!

armin79--
armin78--
armin77--

You're good now.
- --
Vlastimil Babka (Caster)
Gentoo/Java
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 21:10 +0200, Torsten Veller wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni 	   wolf31o2

While I thank you for the nomination for next year's Gentoo Council, I
have decided that I no longer wish to be associated with the Gentoo
Council or any other form of "management" or "leadership" within Gentoo.
It is simply too stressful being harassed constantly by our developer
pool.  I sincerely hope that whomever decides to run for Council this
year takes into account that of the original elected Council, two have
retired (both due to being tired of having the shit roll downhill to
them) from Gentoo completely, and three of the remaining aren't running
for re-election.

Being a Council member is the worst job in Gentoo.  Be sure you're ready
to be treated like complete shit from your fellow developers all the
while having your integrity questioned daily before accepting your
nominations.  I know that I wouldn't accept a position on the Gentoo
Council even if it was a paying job.

I've also come to realize that trying to give a single direction to
something like Gentoo is an extremely foolish endeavor.  The better
solution is smaller projects and tasks that have defined goals and can
actually be accomplished.  Any kind of general direction for the entire
distribution would either mean leaving out groups, or moving in a
direction that conflicts with the goals of our current groups.  Don't
get me wrong, the Council is definitely needed.  I just think their
focus should be on attainable and measurable goals, not lofty
dreamy-eyed goals with no real way to measure whether we're moving in
the right direction.

Rather than go into more and more what I think are major deficiencies in
what the Council can and can not do due to the ever-changing developer
pool, I think I'll just shut up now.  If anyone wants to discuss with me
any of this stuff, feel free to contact me.

> Say YES or NO.

How about a resounding NO, instead?

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:23 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think it's
> any more special than any other TLP.

It is very important in the case of Council members as the Council is
the escalation point for Developer Relations appeals.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Petteri Räty]

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Chris Gianelloni kirjoitti:
> On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:23 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think it's
>> any more special than any other TLP.
> 
> It is very important in the case of Council members as the Council is
> the escalation point for Developer Relations appeals.
> 

True, but I am only in the devrel list because recruiters happens to be
a devrel sub project but in the end it shouldn't matter much whether
there is a tick there or not.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:20:55 -0700
Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:23 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> > How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think
> > it's any more special than any other TLP.
> 
> It is very important in the case of Council members as the Council is
> the escalation point for Developer Relations appeals.

The Council is the escalation point for QA appeals too. At least in
theory...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Duncan]

Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> posted
1183673856.8491.42.camel@inertia.twi-31o2.org, excerpted below, on  Thu,
05 Jul 2007 15:17:36 -0700:

> On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 21:10 +0200, Torsten Veller wrote:
>> Chris Gianelloni 	   wolf31o2
> 
> While I thank you for the nomination for next year's Gentoo Council, I
> have decided that I no longer wish to be associated with the Gentoo
> Council or any other form of "management" or "leadership" within Gentoo.
> It is simply too stressful[. [Note] that of the original elected
> Council, two have retired (both due to being tired of having the shit
> roll downhill to them) from Gentoo completely, and three of the
> remaining aren't running for re-election.
> 
> Being a Council member is the worst job in Gentoo.  Be sure you're ready
> to be treated like complete shit from your fellow developers all the
> while having your integrity questioned daily before accepting your
> nominations.  I know that I wouldn't accept a position on the Gentoo
> Council even if it was a paying job.
> 
> I've also come to realize that trying to give a single direction to
> something like Gentoo is an extremely foolish endeavor.  The better
> solution is smaller projects and tasks that have defined goals and can
> actually be accomplished[.  T]he Council is definitely needed[, but]
> their focus should be on attainable and measurable goals, not lofty
> dreamy-eyed goals with no real way to measure whether we're moving in
> the right direction.

The following is JMHO...

So it sounds like you've come out of the year as a council member more 
cynical, more reality-eyed as compared to starry-eyed, in a word, more 
/mature/.

Too bad you are /not/ running again, as arguably, that sort of wisdom, 
experience and maturity, an appreciation of how reality actually works as 
opposed to theory, is just the sort of thing that Gentoo /needs/ on the 
council.

FWIW, nobody's perfect, but IMO, the outgoing council did reasonably well 
given what it ran on, where it started, and the events that happened on 
their watch that they had to deal with.  Many councilors ran saying 
Gentoo needed to shake things up, and the council going in vowed to be an 
activist council.  I was a bit concerned at that, but whatever.  They 
WERE an activist council, changing a number of things, driving Gentoo 
forward in a number of areas, often in spite of opposition.  In other 
areas, they tried things and those things failed, but they tried.  They 
may not have accomplished everything they wanted, but who does?  They 
certainly were activist, however, and proved both some things that work 
and some things that don't.  That's more than we knew before, and no way 
to know without trying.  Hopefully, those lessons will be taken to heart 
by the next council, whoever they end up being.

And no, I can't say I blame you for not taking the renomination.  It's 
still a shame, tho.  Maybe with a year off...  

Regardless of where you go in relation to Gentoo, I believe a decade from 
now looking back, you'll find the experience a turning point in your 
life, something you'll ultimately say you wouldn't change and that 
changed you for the better, regardless of how hard it was while you were 
going thru it.

So anyway, thanks to you and the entire council for serving.  Someone has 
to, and I can't see how it could have turned out better with anyone else.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

* José Luis Rivero (yoswink) <yoswink@gentoo.org>:
> I've just rescued the xml we used the last year and update the current 
> nominations. The list is in:
>
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~yoswink/council-2007.xml

It has been moved to:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2007-nominees.xml

> I will try to update it often, but please, tell me if I miss something or if 
> there is some error.

Thanks, José.
-- 
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Tobias Scherbaum]

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Markus Ullmann wrote:
> > nominating:
> > others are nominated already ;)
> 
> d'oh, forgot fellow
> 
> dertobi123

Thanks, I accept the nomination.

  Tobias

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Markus Ullmann]

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Davide Cendron schrieb:
>> jokey

Thanks for your nomination :) I'm accepting, too.

greetings with nightvision goggles
-jokey


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Wed, Jul 04, 2007 at 07:01:52PM +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
> Until now I haven't had time to actually think about accepting it, but
> i hope everything around me calms down a bit in the next days.

I hereby accept the nomination. I may write up a longer manifest some
time, but fwiw i will try to push the council into a more open
direction. The recent development of council meetings and their
summaries not being posted (or at least very late) to the list makes me
think that there is some alienation between council and developers,
which i hope i can change.

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org
Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org
forum-mods (at) gentoo.org
#gentoo-forums (freenode)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

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On Sat, 2007-07-14 at 17:45 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
> The recent development of council meetings and their
> summaries not being posted (or at least very late) to the list makes me
> think that there is some alienation between council and developers,
> which i hope i can change.

While any efforts you put forth if elected to the council will
appreciated. Let's not take a malicious stance against our current
council. I don't thing they are intentionally alienating, or delaying in
summaries.

Anyone notice no more GWNs? IMHO they like many of us are simply over
committed. So things don't always get done in reasonable or ideal time
frames. I doubt there is any intentional delay in presenting the
summaries and etc.

Then again, their meetings aren't held in private, and one should not
solely rely on summaries. Unless there is a policy stating such
summaries are required or etc.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 01:29:35PM -0400, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> I don't thing they are intentionally alienating, or delaying in
> summaries.

Most likely not, but still something i'd like to change. ;-)

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org
Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org
forum-mods (at) gentoo.org
#gentoo-forums (freenode)

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GWN (was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08)

[Lars Weiler]

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* William L. Thomson Jr. <wltjr@gentoo.org> [07/07/14 13:29 -0400]:
> Anyone notice no more GWNs?

Well, I noticed it.  And I read the news from June 14 on
http://www.gentoo.org/

Unfortunately, all our GWN-Editors stop working on it after
some months.  It's a really time-consuming job.  Think about
four to five hours just for collecting all articles, put
some glue between them, create the XML and posting it on the
list.  And count in another four to five hours for writing
most of the stuff yourself (which is the default, as the
contributions are very rare).

So, currently we don't have a GWN for two months already.
It was our main publicity medium for telling users about the
current development inside Gentoo, showing the faces of some
devs and notice them about updates in the tree.  We have
other media which can compensate the GWN, like the Forums,
the GLSAs, the dev-mailinglist etc.  But the GWN was a good
compendium of all.

Don't let it die!

Regards, Lars

-- 
Lars Weiler  <pylon@gentoo.org>  +49-171-1963258
Instant Messaging     : pylon@jabber.ccc.de
Gentoo Linux PowerPC  : Developer
Gentoo Infrastructure : CVS Administrator

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen]

On Monday 02 July 2007 21:10, Torsten Veller wrote:
> Let me nominate the current council members:
>
> Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen  jaervosz
YES. When I start on my new job I'll be a lot more online. I'll write some 
more before election time. But already now I can say that I will work for 
keeping Gentoo as open as possible, I don't think permanent moderation or any 
form of censorship will really do us any good.

-- 
Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
Gentoo Linux Security Team
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

* Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org>:
> On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:23 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> > How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think it's
> > any more special than any other TLP.
> 
> It is very important in the case of Council members as the Council is
> the escalation point for Developer Relations appeals.


Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is
on the list right now.

As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should
take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this
is electing an infra member to the council.

Thanks.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Tiziano Müller]

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Torsten Veller schrieb:
> Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is
> on the list right now.
> 
> As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should
> take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this
> is electing an infra member to the council.

In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility is
concentrated on a single person.

Since...
a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not
influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members
and
b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key
position leaves

And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant
information, something else is broken. And tweaking the election
procedure to reach that someone from a special project is elected is
somehow questionable, don't you think?

Cheers,
Tiziano


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Richard Freeman]

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Tiziano Müller wrote:
> Torsten Veller schrieb:
>> Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is
>> on the list right now.
>>
>> As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should
>> take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this
>> is electing an infra member to the council.
> 
> 
> And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant
> information, something else is broken. And tweaking the election
> procedure to reach that someone from a special project is elected is
> somehow questionable, don't you think?
> 

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with somebody from infra
being on the council, but I also agree that it shouldn't be essential.

I see the council as being like a board of directors for a company -
they don't need to make day-to-day decisions but they do need to have
ultimate oversight.  The skillset needed to run a board is different
from the skillset needed to run day-to-day operations.

I see the main skills needed by a council member as:

1.  Good people skills!
2.  Ability to listen to all sides of an issue and make informed decisions.
3.  Ability to be an advocate for the project.
4.  Energy and spirit - ability to motivate.
5.  Ability to be firm when needed - balanced with ability to stay
polite while being firm.
6.  Some technical vision for the project.
7.  Ability to evaluate proposed solutions to technical problems.

Honestly, I'm actually wondering if it is a mistake to limit the council
nominations to devs only.  Having the devs do the voting is a good move
I think - they have to live with the decisions and alienating the devs
isn't going to be good for the users and other stakeholders.  However,
if the devs want to elect a non-dev I think that they should be able to
do so.  Organizations frequently have boards that are composed of
non-daily-contributors.

I think that Gentoo is making a mistake in seeing the council as a place
where ultimately highly-technical decisions get made.  I think that is
one role of the council, but if you look at Gentoo that isn't what is
really causing the problems.  The only really technical flamefest I tend
to see on -dev is the periodic what-is-the-blessed-package-manager war -
and that really isn't so much a technical battle as much as one of
principle - should gentoo have more than one?  (AND PLEASE DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS OPENING UP THAT BATTLE AGAIN!!!)  Most other technical debates
on -dev tend to be a little more dispassionate.

My feeling is that the council should be setting general direction and
providing accountability on technical issues, but individual herd leads
should be the ones taking the initiative.  Is there a QA issue?  The QA
herd lead should come up with a potential solution, run it past the
council with some advance debate, and then everybody works together to
implement it.  The council doesn't need to solve every problem - they
just need to listen to people who might have the answer - with a large
group like Gentoo they probably already exist.

And the council shouldn't be afraid to hire others to do the day-to-day
work (well, maybe hire without pay if necessary...  :) ).  The proctors
were a good example of this (even if maybe it didn't get implemented as
intended or it didn't go as well as hoped).  While the council does need
energy it shouldn't require personally moderating the whole project.  In
real life boards hire CEOs to do the heavy lifting and just meet once
per month to see how it is going.  I'm not advocating that for gentoo,
but people do need to look at the council differently than they do now.
 It doesn't have to have the best developers in gentoo - it needs to
have the best council-members in Gentoo...
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Torsten Veller]

* Tiziano Müller <dev-zero@gentoo.org>:
> Torsten Veller schrieb:
> > Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is
> > on the list right now.
> > 
> > As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should
> > take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this
> > is electing an infra member to the council.
> 
> In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility is
> concentrated on a single person.
> 
> Since...
> a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not
> influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members
> and
> b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key
> position leaves

If devs in a key position leave, it's often a problem. But I don't see
a concentration problem here.

> And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant
> information, something else is broken.

I didn't write that and didn't meant that.

> And tweaking the election procedure to reach that someone from a
> special project is elected is somehow questionable, don't you think?

No. I also vote this way.
I want the council to represent Gentoo as a whole and be represented by
Gentoo as a whole. I think it helps the other council members too if
there is e.g. an infra member to take care of the infra stance.

But: A council without an infra member can do a good job too.

Thanks.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Roy Marples]

After being bribed with beer from edit_21, welp and a few others I
accept my nomination too.

Thanks

Roy
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Duncan]

Torsten Veller <tove@gentoo.org> posted
20070715132018.TA94041.tv@veller.net, excerpted below, on  Sun, 15 Jul
2007 13:40:29 +0200:

> * Tiziano Müller <dev-zero@gentoo.org>:
>> Torsten Veller schrieb:
>> > Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is on the
>> > list right now.
>> > 
>> > As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we
>> > should take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to
>> > achieve this is electing an infra member to the council.
>> 
>> In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility
>> is concentrated on a single person.
>> 
>> Since...
>> a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not
>> influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members
>> and
>> b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key
>> position leaves
> 
> If devs in a key position leave, it's often a problem. But I don't see a
> concentration problem here.

The problem in practice is this:  As Chris G. I believe it was pointed 
out, being a Council member is "hella" stressful.  (From memory so the 
numbers are fuzzy, ask Chris.)  Of the this term's seven elected council 
members, two ended up retiring from Gentoo entirely, while others almost 
did and/or resigned from their council position.  Few of the remaining 
ones are interested in ever running for the position again.

So serious as a heart attack, there is a real problem.  Unfortunately, as 
currently structured, the stress on council is great enough that people 
/do/ leave in the middle of their term, so it's best to consider that a 
real likelihood when thinking about nominations and votes for council.

I respect Chris G a lot, but it's very obvious the stress has affected 
how he deals with Gentoo as well, and he's stated no way is he interested 
in the position again.  I think everybody nominated even more than those 
voting would do well to pay serious attention to what he says on the 
subject, because how they handle their duties as council members has a 
very real likelihood of permanently affecting their relationship with 
Gentoo.  

I know if I were a dev and nominated, I'd be seriously contemplating 
whether it were worth doing, in the light of how dramatically it 
negatively affected the Gentoo life of last years elected council.  
There's no escaping the reality, however one might wish to pretend it 
won't affect them.  I'd be asking myself if the council position was 
worth possibly getting so burnt out and fed up with Gentoo that I quit.  
Some might believe in what they want to do enough to find it worth it, 
while others believe in their ability to handle the situation 
regardless.  More power to them.  

I do hope that those that accept the nomination and are ultimately 
elected are ready for it, because it really hurts to lose good people, 
and by definition, anyone well respected enough to win an elected seat on 
the council is a "good" person in terms of their contribution to Gentoo, 
or they'd not be winning that seat.  Losing anyone that well respected by 
their peers is GOING to hurt, so I really do hope the folks that are 
running are prepared for what they are getting themselves into, and we 
/don't/ lose anyone due to council duties this coming year.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Tom Knight]

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On Mon, Jul 02, 2007 at 08:43:36PM +0100, Peter Weller wrote:
> I nominate...
> 
> tomk

Thanks for the nomination but I'll have to decline as I haven't got enough
free time at the moment to be on the council.

Tom
-- 
Tom Knight
tomk@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key: http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomk/tomk.asc

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Ryan Hill]

Torsten Veller wrote:
> | for the quick low down:
> |  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
> |  - anyone can nominate
> |  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
> | 
> | so get with the nominating people !

I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring.


-- 
dirtyepic                 salesman said this vacuum's guaranteed
 gentoo org          it could suck an ancient virus from the sea
  9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3  5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8)

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Jan Kundrát]

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I'd also like to nominate mcummings (he's an old guy in Gentoo land and
his mails look reasonable), lack (he's a bit fresher, but his mails are
good) and kumba (old guy, nice mails).

XML has been updated.

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Kumba]

Ryan Hill wrote:
> Torsten Veller wrote:
>> | for the quick low down:
>> |  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
>> |  - anyone can nominate
>> |  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
>> | 
>> | so get with the nominating people !
> 
> I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring.

I'll decline for this year; I'm content to hide over in MIPS land and toss out 
random ideas from behind the safe shadows of an Origin 2000 cluster...

Thanks for the nomination, though!


--Kumba

-- 
Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead

"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands 
do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."  --Elrond
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Luis Francisco Araujo]

Kumba wrote:
> Ryan Hill wrote:
>> Torsten Veller wrote:
>>> | for the quick low down:
>>> |  - nominations are from July 1 through July 31
>>> |  - anyone can nominate
>>> |  - only Gentoo devs may be nominated
>>> | | so get with the nominating people !
>>
>> I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring.
> 
> I'll decline for this year; I'm content to hide over in MIPS land and
> toss out random ideas from behind the safe shadows of an Origin 2000
> cluster...
> 
> Thanks for the nomination, though!
> 
> 
> --Kumba
> 

Admit it, you just wii all the time. :-)

-- 

Luis F. Araujo "araujo at gentoo.org"
Gentoo Linux

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Jose Luis Rivero (YosWinK)]

I'm missing some people in the nominees list which everytime they appear 
is to give solutions or ideas in a positive way, what for me is a 
pleasure to find:

dsd      (Daniel Drake)
lu_zero  (Luca Barbato)
zmedico  (Zac Medico)

Thanks.

-- 
Jose Luis Rivero [yoswink@gentoo.org]
Gentoo/Doc Gentoo/Alpha
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Jim Ramsay]

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Jan Kundrát wrote:
> lack (he's a bit fresher, but his mails are good)

Thanks very much, I appreciate the nomination!

But I must decline.

I don't feel that I have enough experience in Gentoo land yet. Plus
I'll be starting a new job next month and am not yet sure how much time
I can commit.

Ask me again in a year :)

-- 
Jim Ramsay
Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Luca Barbato]

Jose Luis Rivero (YosWinK) wrote:
> I'm missing some people in the nominees list which everytime they appear
> is to give solutions or ideas in a positive way, what for me is a
> pleasure to find:
> 
> lu_zero  (Luca Barbato)

Thank you, I gladly accept. =)

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Mike Frysinger]

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i dont think he'll accept, but i dont see Flameeyes name yet ...
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Luca Barbato]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i dont think he'll accept, but i dont see Flameeyes name yet ...
> -mike

+1

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

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On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 22:52 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i dont think he'll accept, but i dont see Flameeyes name yet ...

Fine then, I nominate the biggest flamer of them all, Flameeyes :)

PS
You have to accept, blood in blood out ;)

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-council] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Tuesday 17 July 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i dont think he'll accept, but i dont see Flameeyes name yet ...

his ISP decided to poop on him for a while, so he contacted me off list to say 
he accepts
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Michael Cummings]

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Jan Kundrát wrote:
> I'd also like to nominate mcummings (he's an old guy in Gentoo land and
> his mails look reasonable), lack (he's a bit fresher, but his mails are
> good) and kumba (old guy, nice mails).
> 
> XML has been updated.
> 
> Cheers,
> -jkt
> 

In the vein of being reasonable, I will respectfully decline (but thank
you :). I'm having a hard enough time balancing all that I have on my
plate now, and with my router flaking my ssh connections home this last
week, even less opportunity to be online. I appreciate the nomination
(especially so out of the blue), and wish the Council nominees the best
of luck.

- --

- -----o()o----------------------------------------------
Michael Cummings   |    #gentoo-dev, #gentoo-perl
Gentoo Perl Dev    |    on irc.freenode.net
Gentoo/SPARC
Gentoo/AMD64
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Peter Weller]

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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:47:42 +0200
Markus Ullmann <jokey@gentoo.org> wrote:

[..snip..]
> welp
[..snip..]


On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:29:15 +0200
Raúl Porcel <armin76@gentoo.org> wrote:

[..snip..]
> - -welp
[..snip..]


On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:06:34 +0100
George Prowse <cokehabit@gmail.com> wrote:

[..snip..]
> welp
[..snip..]


On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:27:18 -0400
Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:

> All,
> 
> You've all stated that you accept or don't accept (but this is
> targeted at the acceptors, sorry non-acceptors) but the people that
> accept haven't really given much reason as to why they would be a good
> candidate. 
[..snip..]
> --
> Doug Goldstein

Yes, I will accept.

My main plans over the next few years would be to improve
communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between
developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees,
upstream and so on. I'd particularly want to ensure that there is better
communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon Linux
and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each other's
skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). I'd encourage
"innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, for example,
XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called these days. I'd
also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus on
the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff.

Now, I'm sure that a number of you would prefer everything to be
closed, kept private within a number of individuals, but if that *is*
the case, why on Earth are you involved with an *Open* Source project,
such as Gentoo? Wouldn't you be better off using the likes of Adobe's
products and Microsoft's products?

Yes, I am quite young. Yes, I could be considered relatively new to the
project. Yes, I might make mistakes, but I also *learn* from mistakes,
which some people seem to find hard. Being young/relatively new to the
project will allow me to potentially bring a fresh view on things, that
some of you old fuddy-duddies may or may not have thought of before.
And isn't that what Gentoo is about? New ideas, innovation, fresh
views, etc, etc. Anyway. Meh. I'm starting to waffle on.

And I'm moving house at the beginning of August, I'm also going to
France sometime in August. Just some advanced warnings that I may not
be around so much during the voting period.

Bai!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Roy Bamford]

On 2007.07.21 10:47, Peter Weller wrote:

[snip]
> 
> Yes, I will accept.
> 
> My main plans over the next few years would be to improve
> communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between
> developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees,
> upstream and so on. I'd particularly want to ensure that there is
> better
> communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon Linux
> and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each other's
> skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). I'd encourage
> "innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, for
> example,
> XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called these days. 
> I'd
> also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus 
> on
> the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff.
> 
> Now, I'm sure that a number of you would prefer everything to be
> closed, kept private within a number of individuals, but if that *is*
> the case, why on Earth are you involved with an *Open* Source 
> project,
> such as Gentoo? Wouldn't you be better off using the likes of Adobe's
> products and Microsoft's products?
> 
> Yes, I am quite young. Yes, I could be considered relatively new to
> the
> project. Yes, I might make mistakes, but I also *learn* from 
> mistakes,
> which some people seem to find hard. Being young/relatively new to 
> the
> project will allow me to potentially bring a fresh view on things,
> that
> some of you old fuddy-duddies may or may not have thought of before.
> And isn't that what Gentoo is about? New ideas, innovation, fresh
> views, etc, etc. Anyway. Meh. I'm starting to waffle on.
> 
> And I'm moving house at the beginning of August, I'm also going to
> France sometime in August. Just some advanced warnings that I may not
> be around so much during the voting period.
> 
> Bai!
> 

Peter,

That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates 
need to explain, if they are elected :- 

1. What they will do
2. Why they will do it
3. How they will do it
4. Timescales for their plans.

This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with 
similar aims, so we get a cohesive council, not a collection of 
individuals trying to take Gentoo in different directions. 

Any candidate unwilling to prepare such a manifesto should withdraw now 
as they clearly don't have the time or interest to take an active seat 
on the council.

Like it or not, the council is more of a social/political body than a 
development body.

Regards,

Roy Bamford,
(NeddySeagoon) 
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Chrissy Fullam]

 
Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>On 2007.07.21 10:47, Peter Weller wrote:
>>
>> My main plans over the next few years would be to improve 
>> communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between 
>> developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees, 
>> upstream and so on. 
>>
>> I'd particularly want to ensure that there is 
>> better communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon 
>> Linux and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each 
>> other's skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). 
>>
>> I'd encourage "innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, 
>> for example, XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called 
>> these days.
>>
>> I'd also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus
on 
>> the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff.

> That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates
need
> to explain, if they are elected :- 
> 1. What they will do
> 2. Why they will do it
> 3. How they will do it
> 4. Timescales for their plans.

> This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with similar
aims, so
> we get a cohesive council, not a collection of individuals trying to take
Gentoo
> in different directions. 

I like this line of thinking, it really helps the rest of us in our voting
decisions when we know what your plans are. I also agree with Neddy when he
says it would be best if we could elect a council with similar ideas instead
of each person potentially having completely different ideas.
That said, I don't think the questions Neddy stated above should wait to be
answered until someone is elected, we'd really need to know that up front to
make an informed decision.
Welp it appears to me that you had four plans in your email, and by the way
thank you for being first to state them. Could you go back over them and
respond to the how you would plan on doing it and under what time frame?
(Innovative ideas are great, but don't mean much if they cant be executed.)

Kind regards,
Christina Fullam
Gentoo Developer Relations Lead | GWN Author

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:47:13 +0100
Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'd particularly want to ensure that there is
> better communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon
> Linux and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each
> other's skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s).

We were just talking about this last night in #gentoo-dev, so I'm glad
to see you share the feeling. I blogged about making Gentoo a better
tool yesterday, and a big part of that is communicating with the people
who are doing so.

Thanks,
Donnie

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2007-07-21 at 13:31 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates 
> need to explain, if they are elected :- 
> 
> 1. What they will do
> 2. Why they will do it
> 3. How they will do it
> 4. Timescales for their plans.

5. Experience doing similar things in other arenas
6. Why they think they're qualified for the position
7. How they plan on adding the Council work into their normal Gentoo
work load
8. How much time they have to dedicate to Council tasks

These last two are probably some of the most important to me, since I
have seen first-hand how much time the Council can take.  Here's a
glimpse, for the rest of you... When the Council was working on the CoC,
I spent in excess of 50 hours in one week working solely on the CoC.
This means I put my actual paying job on the back burner for the Council
because I pretty much had to do so.  The Council is *not* only a once a
month job.  You're a Council member every hour of every day for a year.

> This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with 
> similar aims, so we get a cohesive council, not a collection of 
> individuals trying to take Gentoo in different directions. 

I know that I will likely be choosing people of a like mind to myself.
I'll also probably be picking people the *least* likely to be pushing
for a ton of changes, simply because I also don't think we need 7 people
pushing in 7 directions only trying to get *their* ideas enacted.

> Any candidate unwilling to prepare such a manifesto should withdraw now 
> as they clearly don't have the time or interest to take an active seat 
> on the council.

Agreed.

> Like it or not, the council is more of a social/political body than a 
> development body.

This is really true.  While the Council is the main technical body, we
tend to make technical decisions very quickly and without controversy.
Social/political issues are almost always very long-running and tend to
take up more of our time.  If I were to guess, I would say that 90% of
what we do is technical, but the 10% that is non-technical takes up 90%
of our time.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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