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Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:28:27 +0200
From: "Rob C" <hyakuhei@gentoo.org>
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To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: ion license
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On 13/05/07, Jakub Moc <jakub@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Ulrich Mueller napsal(a):
> > Maybe the following are also interesting in this context:
> >
> > Debian:
> > <http://womble.decadent.org.uk/blog/renaming-of-ion3>
> > <http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=69522>
> > Archlinux:
> > <http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004634.html>
> >
> > I wonder if a package should be kept whose author is threatening with
> > "legal repercurssions" [sic].
> >
> > Ulrich
>
> Please, drop this thing from the tree. It has clearly no future in
> Gentoo anyway:
>
> http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004644.html
>
> <snip>
> > The only way to keep absolute control over the product as delivered to
> > the user is to change the license and distribute Ion3 as binary-only.
>
> I am going to do that. And, in fact, after final Ion3 is released, I'm
> not going to write a line of so-called "free software"; so poor has
> been the treatment of the FOSS herd (both of my code, and of the good
> old *nix), that I'm not going to do them any services any more.
> </snip>
>
> This post provides a very good reasoning so I'll just link it:
>
> http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004653.html
>
> P.S. And, please forget the 'but we only distribute ebuild, not the
> package' line. The guy is seriously paranoid, annoying and crazy. Next
> time he's apparently gonna claim that portage is a derivative work of
> Ion3.
>
> http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004663.html
> http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004659.html
>
> I'm not interested in his personal crusade against font handling on
> Linux, nor are most of users. No place for such frenzy in Gentoo - not
> worth the trouble, and noone should encourage such attitude, more
> importantly.
>
> <snip>
> FOSS shit has been on a constant downward slide ever since I started
> using it back in '95-'96, especially after all sorts of world domination
> plans, like Gnome, were announced. Windows, OTOH, has improved, although
> Vista has a small degradation again: you also can't easily disable the
> blurry fonts completely, just like Linux that requires writing loads
> of XML shit to do so. Maybe they've employed a few representative
> specimens of the FOSS herd -- a bunch of teenagers wanking to buzzwords,
> instead of pr0n. No wonder they can't tell a blurry font from a crisp
> one.
> </snip>
>
> Once again, I don't want to use any software produced by such abusive
> moron, and other people should do the same - or they should help them
> themselves and compile the only original, trademarked Ion3 (C)(TM)
> manually.
>
> *annoyed*
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Jakub Moc
> mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
> GPG signature:
> http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
> Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA
> 3D9E
>
> ... still no signature ;)
>
>
>
As others have said, drop ion3 and related packages.
This sort of abuse from up stream should not be tolerated. We are at the
service of our users _not_ upstream.
Bending over backwards to meet the demands of an upstream author can almost
never be in the interest of the users. It takes up far too much time and in
the end if we were to comply with the demands of Tumo I have no doubt that
we would be supplying the users with a product which is inferior to the
"gentooified" version.
Meeting Tumo's demands isn't in the interest of our users. Where a conflict
like this exists the path of least confusion and disruption should be taken.
Drop the package and suggest to users missing it that they either go to it
direct, email Tumo or find an alternative WM, of the hundreds out there and
the scores within Gentoo, I'm sure the discerning user could find something
to suit there needs.
At the end of the day, this isn't "Gnome", "XFCE" or any other package we
serve out with a huge user base where adjusting to suit upstream may be the
better option. Its ion3. Tumo has gotten too big for his boots and its high
time Gentoo put its foot down.
Just my 0.02 chf
-Rob
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On 13/05/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jakub Moc</b> <<a href="mailto:jakub@gentoo.org">jakub@gentoo.org</a>> wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Ulrich Mueller napsal(a):<br>> Maybe the following are also interesting in this context:<br>><br>> Debian:<br>> <<a href="http://womble.decadent.org.uk/blog/renaming-of-ion3">http://womble.decadent.org.uk/blog/renaming-of-ion3
</a>><br>> <<a href="http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=69522">http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=69522</a>><br>> Archlinux:<br>> <<a href="http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004634.html">
http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004634.html</a>><br>><br>> I wonder if a package should be kept whose author is threatening with<br>> "legal repercurssions" [sic].<br>><br>
> Ulrich<br><br>Please, drop this thing from the tree. It has clearly no future in<br>Gentoo anyway:<br><br><a href="http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004644.html">http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004644.html
</a><br><br><snip><br>> The only way to keep absolute control over the product as delivered to<br>> the user is to change the license and distribute Ion3 as binary-only.<br><br>I am going to do that. And, in fact, after final Ion3 is released, I'm
<br>not going to write a line of so-called "free software"; so poor has<br>been the treatment of the FOSS herd (both of my code, and of the good<br>old *nix), that I'm not going to do them any services any more.
<br></snip><br><br>This post provides a very good reasoning so I'll just link it:<br><br><a href="http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004653.html">http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004653.html
</a><br><br>P.S. And, please forget the 'but we only distribute ebuild, not the<br>package' line. The guy is seriously paranoid, annoying and crazy. Next<br>time he's apparently gonna claim that portage is a derivative work of Ion3.
<br><br><a href="http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004663.html">http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004663.html</a><br><a href="http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004659.html">
http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/tur-users/2007-April/004659.html</a><br><br>I'm not interested in his personal crusade against font handling on<br>Linux, nor are most of users. No place for such frenzy in Gentoo - not
<br>worth the trouble, and noone should encourage such attitude, more<br>importantly.<br><br><snip><br>FOSS shit has been on a constant downward slide ever since I started<br>using it back in '95-'96, especially after all sorts of world domination
<br>plans, like Gnome, were announced. Windows, OTOH, has improved, although<br>Vista has a small degradation again: you also can't easily disable the<br>blurry fonts completely, just like Linux that requires writing loads
<br>of XML shit to do so. Maybe they've employed a few representative<br>specimens of the FOSS herd -- a bunch of teenagers wanking to buzzwords,<br>instead of pr0n. No wonder they can't tell a blurry font from a crisp
<br>one.<br></snip><br><br>Once again, I don't want to use any software produced by such abusive<br>moron, and other people should do the same - or they should help them<br>themselves and compile the only original, trademarked Ion3 (C)(TM) manually.
<br><br>*annoyed*<br><br><br>--<br>Best regards,<br><br> Jakub Moc<br> mailto:<a href="mailto:jakub@gentoo.org">jakub@gentoo.org</a><br> GPG signature:<br> <a href="http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E">
http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E</a><br> Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E<br><br> ... still no signature ;)<br><br><br></blockquote></div><br>
As others have said, drop ion3 and related packages.<br><br>This sort of abuse from up stream should not be tolerated. We are at the service of our users _not_ upstream. <br><br>Bending over backwards to meet the demands of an upstream author can almost never be in the interest of the users. It takes up far too much time and in the end if we were to comply with the demands of Tumo I have no doubt that we would be supplying the users with a product which is inferior to the "gentooified" version.
<br><br>Meeting Tumo's demands isn't in the interest of our users. Where a conflict like this exists the path of least confusion and disruption should be taken. Drop the package and suggest to users missing it that they either go to it direct, email Tumo or find an alternative WM, of the hundreds out there and the scores within Gentoo, I'm sure the discerning user could find something to suit there needs.
<br><br>At the end of the day, this isn't "Gnome", "XFCE" or any other package we serve out with a huge user base where adjusting to suit upstream may be the better option. Its ion3. Tumo has gotten too big for his boots and its high time Gentoo put its foot down.
<br><br>Just my 0.02 chf<br><br>-Rob
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