Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers

[Alin Nastac]

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Natanael Copa wrote:
> Because of gentoo devs always seems to fight?
>
>   
You don't have to fight.
> Its funny, I use gentoo much more that FreeBSD, I'm a freebsd port
> maintainer, but nothing for Gentoo (well, im an active bugreporter...)
>
> When I submit a fix/version bumb (I submit as "maintainer update") to
> freebsd ports, its normally committed within hours, even if its not a
> popular port. When I submit fixes for packages in Gentoo bugzilla it get
> stuck for months. They must have done something right.
>   
I don't know anything about freebsd, but I think they have a lot less
packages than us.

Since we have a vast territory to cover with just 200 (semi-)active
developers, there are portions of the tree neglected by the dev corpus.
The solution is quite simple: new devs assigned to those part of the
tree. The only problem is that is very hard to find motivated peeps.

As a guy that maintains stuff for which I don't have the slightest
interest (other than serving Gentoo community, of course), I find the
"let the others do the job" attitude pretty infuriating.


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[gentoo-dev] Treecleaner meeting summary

[Elfyn McBratney]

Ciao,

The treecleaner project held a meeting today on IRC (#gentoo-treecleaners
on Freenode, log attached) to discuss the goals of the project, why it
was frozen and ways in which to improve the process - treecleaning
without a vengence, maybe? ;)

The outcome of the meeting is, basically, that we need to be a lot more
careful/cautious when it comes to punting packages from the tree.  For
example, in cases where packages work but the ebuilds themselves do not,
we should fixing those up where possible.  Same goes for packages that
are widely used e.g., XMMS (that one just came into my head, honest!).

In addition to this, we'll also be following a process similar to that
used by the security team: file a bug (assigned to maintainer-needed
with treecleaners on the CC) detailing why exactly package foo should be
masked/removed; X yes votes from treecleaner members will result in the
package getting package.mask-ed and/or removed from the tree.

That about sums it up; see the attached log if anything is unclear, or
reply to this mail. :)

Best,
Treecleaner team

-- 
Elfyn McBratney,
Gentoo Developer,
Nutty between the hours of 3AM and 14AM...
+----------------------------------+
|  irc.freenode.net / beu          |
|  beu [@] gentoo [.] org          |
+-------------------------- o.0 ---+

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Treecleaner meeting summary

[Elfyn McBratney]

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Typically, I failed at something: meeting log *really* attached this
time...

-- 
Elfyn McBratney,
Gentoo Developer,
Nutty between the hours of 3AM and 14AM...
+----------------------------------+
|  irc.freenode.net / beu          |
|  beu [@] gentoo [.] org          |
+-------------------------- o.0 ---+


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--- Log opened Sun Dec 17 15:28:06 2006
1166369286 (15:28:06) :: Join: beu (n=beu@gentoo/developer/beu) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166371177 (15:59:37) :: hoffie is now known as hoffie_
1166373471 (16:37:51) :: Join: NeddySeagoon (n=NeddySea@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166373742 (16:42:22) :: Join: MinnieBannister (n=roy@dsl-62-3-120-141.zen.co.uk) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166378456 (18:00:56)  * antarus hrms
1166378515 (18:01:55) :: Mode: [+o antarus] by ChanServ on #gentoo-treecleaners
1166378518 (18:01:58)  * dirtyepic yawns and stretches
1166378567 (18:02:47) :: antarus changed the topic of #gentoo-treecleaners to: Welcome to #gentoo-treecleaners | The  Treecleaner project needs you! E-mail antarus@gentoo.org or treecleaner@gentoo.org for info | Our meeting starts now (I think) 1800 UTC
1166378620 (18:03:40) :: Join: jakub (n=jakub@gentoo/developer/jakub) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166378626 (18:03:46) (masterdriverz) woo!
1166378628 (18:03:48) (jakub) *plop* :)
1166378635 (18:03:55)  * masterdriverz made it in time
1166378653 (18:04:13) (jakub) someone failed to send the reminder, huh?
1166378655 (18:04:15) (jakub) :)
1166378726 (18:05:26) @(antarus) er
1166378729 (18:05:29) @(antarus) I mailed like yesterday
1166378731 (18:05:31) (dirtyepic) who else isn't here?
1166378732 (18:05:32) (masterdriverz) antarus: so start already! :P
1166378749 (18:05:49) @(antarus) hell yes
1166378752 (18:05:52) @(antarus) I passed math with a 2.5
1166378753 (18:05:53) @(antarus) I rock
1166378756 (18:05:56) @(antarus) anyway
1166378761 (18:06:01) @(antarus) This meeting is started bitches
1166378765 (18:06:05) @(antarus) anyone here logging it?
1166378775 (18:06:15) (masterdriverz) i'll do it
1166378787 (18:06:27) (spb) i log * if noone else is
1166378789 (18:06:29)  * antarus invites marienz
1166378833 (18:07:13) :: Join: marienz (i=marienz@gentoo/developer/marienz) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166378881 (18:08:01) @(antarus) marienz: dankee
1166378885 (18:08:05) (masterdriverz) NeddySeagoon, phreak``: teh meeting!
1166378896 (18:08:16) @(antarus) marienz: you don't even need to talk unless you want to, but I appreciate your input on stuff ;)
1166378919 (18:08:39) (masterdriverz) and beandog, falco and cardoe ain't here
1166378926 (18:08:46) @(antarus) beandog isn't on irc..
1166378929 (18:08:49) @(antarus) I forgot falco
1166379024 (18:10:24) (eroyf) heh
1166379038 (18:10:38) @(antarus) anyway
1166379040 (18:10:40) @(antarus) letse begin
1166379053 (18:10:53)  * marienz pays some attention
1166379056 (18:10:56)  * dirtyepic hits the cerimonial gong
1166379065 (18:11:05) @(antarus) So the purpose of the meeting and the freezing was that we were...mmm perhaps moving away from what I had originally intended this project to be
1166379076 (18:11:16) @(antarus) Thats ok I guess, but I want to 'return the the roots' a bit
1166379104 (18:11:44) @(antarus) I know that I've been kind of a crappy...mentor in many regards to how I wanted the project ran
1166379124 (18:12:04)  * beu pays more attention.
1166379133 (18:12:13) @(antarus) It *seems* to me that stuff is getting removed rather quickly
1166379145 (18:12:25) @(antarus) Jakub hands us a bug and says "dead upstream, doesn't compile"
1166379150 (18:12:30) @(antarus) try to compilie the package
1166379151 (18:12:31) @(antarus) it fails
1166379155 (18:12:35) @(antarus) lets mask and remove it, done.
1166379180 (18:13:00) (NeddySeagoon) masterdriverz, I'm here
1166379188 (18:13:08) @(antarus) NeddySeagoon: lo'
1166379195 (18:13:15) (masterdriverz) NeddySeagoon: just checking :)
1166379199 (18:13:19) (NeddySeagoon) hi antarus
1166379235 (18:13:55) :: Join: Cardoe (n=Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166379239 (18:13:59) (Cardoe) hrm.. It's that time huh?
1166379245 (18:14:05) (beu) yep, slacker!
1166379246 (18:14:06) (Cardoe) I was staring at the TV... sorry.
1166379254 (18:14:14) (dirtyepic) i think there's been some stuff getting removed that people still used in one way or another
1166379273 (18:14:33) (dirtyepic) or if not, it seemed like it could happen fairly easily ;)
1166379282 (18:14:42) @(antarus) dirtyepic: indeed
1166379292 (18:14:52) @(antarus) How I'd like to proceed is basically
1166379293 (18:14:53) (beu) cardoe: http://dev.gentooexperimental.org/~beu/hash-gentoo-treecleaners.2006-12-17.log
1166379296 (18:14:56) @(antarus) run like the security team
1166379297 (18:14:57) (beu) cardoe: (for what you've missed)
1166379311 (18:15:11) @(antarus) say a maintainer refers you a package
1166379312 (18:15:12) (Cardoe) beu: thank you
1166379321 (18:15:21) @(antarus) it has lets say, two simple problems
1166379334 (18:15:34) @(antarus) it's unported to mod X and it doesn't compiile with $lastest_gcc
1166379342 (18:15:42) :: Join: DrEeevil (n=dreeevil@gentoo/user/bonsaikitten) to #gentoo-treecleaners
1166379358 (18:15:58) @(antarus) first off, unported to mod X is a gay reason to remove something unless it's X deps are horribly complicated
1166379372 (18:16:12) @(antarus) if it's unported, port the damn ebuild
1166379378 (18:16:18) @(antarus) and I thinkn thats the most irritating
1166379389 (18:16:29) @(antarus) it' slike 'version bump' -> I don't care so I'll punt it instead
1166379402 (18:16:42) @(antarus) The main point of this project is to punt *broken* packages
1166379410 (18:16:50)  * beu nods 
1166379414 (18:16:54) @(antarus) so I think I'd like to redefine *broken*
1166379418 (18:16:58) @(antarus) as broken in the package sense
1166379420 (18:17:00) @(antarus) not the ebuild sense
1166379426 (18:17:06) @(antarus) if the ebuild has problems you should be able to fix them
1166379430 (18:17:10) @(antarus) if you need help, ask for it
1166379449 (18:17:29) @(antarus) if the *package* is broken, ask upstream, if upstream is dead, I'm thinking of a voting process
1166379482 (18:18:02) @(antarus) Basically you state on teh bug what is wrong, in some detail.  I want to know that you at least tried to figure out what was wrong and determined that it was non-trivial to fix
1166379497 (18:18:17) (Cardoe) we're kicking packages for any and all reasons. I sneezed while emerging the package! It needs to be removed!
1166379524 (18:18:44) @(antarus) Maybe it's non-trivial for you but trivial for masterdriverz because he has 1337 autotools skills or something, I have no idea
1166379527 (18:18:47) (DrEeevil) but ... if it has been broken for at least 6 months and no bug filed before one can assume that it is not used
1166379542 (18:19:02) (NeddySeagoon) Cardoe, Other than XMMS, I don't see any complaints about stuff being removed
1166379556 (18:19:16) (masterdriverz) NeddySeagoon: you missed the xastir stuff?
1166379557 (18:19:17) @(antarus) so it will take X number of votes to punt a package, similar to issuing a GLSA on a vulnerability
1166379572 (18:19:32) (jakub) NeddySeagoon: there are occasional rants here and there :)
1166379572 (18:19:32) (masterdriverz) antarus: x number or majority?
1166379574 (18:19:34) @(antarus) NeddySeagoon: I know Corey Shields complained, and a few other users as well
1166379575 (18:19:35) (beu) sounds like an excellent idea.
1166379581 (18:19:41) @(antarus) masterdriverz: X being I haven't determined yet ;)
1166379584 (18:19:44) (dirtyepic) i think i agree
1166379613 (18:20:13) @(antarus) so any questions about this?
1166379618 (18:20:18) (jakub) antarus: OTOH, have rarely seen anyone offering to proxy-maintain anything (esp. the xastir thing now that you've mentioned it)
1166379619 (18:20:19) @(antarus) improvements, disagreements, etc?
1166379629 (18:20:29) @(antarus) jakub: thats the next item in a minute ;)
1166379637 (18:20:37) (masterdriverz) antarus: what about security stuff, or a maintainer who asks treecleaners to punt smt
1166379647 (18:20:47) (jakub) we need falco here ;)
1166379657 (18:20:57) (jakub) and we need a security policy on punting shit
1166379659 (18:20:59) (dirtyepic) that maintainer should be punting it
1166379675 (18:21:15) (NeddySeagoon) antarus, will things go in package.mask pending a vote, so users get more notice ?
1166379704 (18:21:44) (phreak``) punks ..
1166379705 (18:21:45) (dirtyepic) or if they don't want it it should go to maintainer-needed and then it's in our ballpark
1166379708 (18:21:48) @(antarus) phreak``: hey
1166379711 (18:21:51) @(antarus) dirtyepic: exactly
1166379715 (18:21:55) (masterdriverz) NeddySeagoon: surely it makes more sense to wait till after the vote..
1166379723 (18:22:03) @(antarus) if a maintainer wants it punted, it would basically be giving it to maintainer-needed
1166379741 (18:22:21) @(antarus) I think thats where some of the bad blood is coming from, we are doing the removal work and then 'getting blamed' if you will for removing stuff thats being used
1166379756 (18:22:36) @(antarus) I'd like to focus on broken and unmaintained stuff
1166379772 (18:22:52) (dirtyepic) cool
1166379773 (18:22:53) @(antarus) if they want to use our *tools* sure, assuming our tools ar eshiny
1166379781 (18:23:01) (NeddySeagoon) masterdriverz, Well, I think 30 days from make until removal is a bit tight. Anyone doing monthly updates needs twice that
1166379784 (18:23:04) @(antarus) there is no reason to not improve the package removal process through scripts and whatnot ;)
1166379807 (18:23:27) @(antarus) NeddySeagoon: I don't have a problem extending it.
1166379816 (18:23:36) (masterdriverz) NeddySeagoon: so make it 60...
1166379820 (18:23:40) @(antarus) NeddySeagoon: I also suspect there will be..less removals
1166379825 (18:23:45) (NeddySeagoon) antarus, Lets make it a seperate discussion
1166379839 (18:23:59) @(antarus) Another minor point, it's only been a problem once
1166379845 (18:24:05) @(antarus) Don't remove critical packages
1166379846 (18:24:06) (dirtyepic) are/do we have an overlay for removed packages?
1166379847 (18:24:07) @(antarus) ever
1166379853 (18:24:13) @(antarus) dirtyepic: we do, but we don't use it
1166379858 (18:24:18) (dirtyepic) heheh
1166379864 (18:24:24) (masterdriverz) antarus: so, pending a vote, a package is assigned to m-needed, with treecleaners CC'ed
1166379868 (18:24:28) @(antarus) dirtyepic: someone (phreak?) has a script for removing and commiting
1166379885 (18:24:45) (masterdriverz) then if vote = yes, CC m-needed, and assign to treecleaners?
1166379887 (18:24:47) @(antarus) masterdriverz has a script for recording removals in a mysql db
1166379895 (18:24:55) @(antarus) just need to get some work via integration ;)
1166379901 (18:25:01) (dirtyepic) cool
1166379914 (18:25:14) (jakub) dirtyepic: shrug... we shouldn't have a _generic_ dumpspace for punted crap
1166379937 (18:25:37)  * antarus doens't necessarily see the need for the overlay, we have anon cvs now..
1166379945 (18:25:45) (dirtyepic) hmm
1166379946 (18:25:46) @(antarus) they can just cehck out the files from the Attic?
1166379947 (18:25:47) (phreak``) antarus: I had, that would do the mail, remove stuff from the main tree and stuff it into the overlay. but thats gone :P
1166379954 (18:25:54) @(antarus) phreak``: gone?
1166379956 (18:25:56) @(antarus) phreak``: bad
1166379959 (18:25:59) @(antarus) phreak``: er bah
1166379967 (18:26:07) @(antarus) phreak``: didn't it hide in your devspace? :P
1166379971 (18:26:11) (phreak``) antarus: as in vanished, wiped
1166379975 (18:26:15) (phreak``) antarus: no clue :)
1166379978 (18:26:18) @(antarus) ahhh
1166379981 (18:26:21) @(antarus) we can REBUILD HIM
1166379982 (18:26:22)  * phreak`` goes checking
1166379982 (18:26:22) @(antarus) or something
1166379983 (18:26:23) (dirtyepic) maybe just documenting that would be enough
1166379992 (18:26:32) @(antarus) dirtyepic: a tiny how-to guide for doing that
1166379997 (18:26:37) @(antarus) dirtyepic: I agree
1166380003 (18:26:43) @(antarus) also a better guide for dealing with pmasked packages
1166380005 (18:26:45) @(antarus) what does it mean
1166380008 (18:26:48) @(antarus) how can you help, etc..
1166380009 (18:26:49) (phreak``) http://dev.gentoo.org/~phreak/projects/treecleaners/ <-
1166380062 (18:27:42) (masterdriverz) phreak``: looks nice :)
1166380084 (18:28:04) (dirtyepic) sounds good to me
1166380089 (18:28:09) @(antarus) phreak``: sexy
1166380091 (18:28:11) (masterdriverz) bleh, gotta go
1166380093 (18:28:13) (masterdriverz) later people
1166380095 (18:28:15) (phreak``) antarus: you were right :P ./files/scripts/treecleaner-cleanup.sh (at least an early version)
1166380099 (18:28:19) (phreak``) masterdriverz: have fun
1166380107 (18:28:27) (masterdriverz) phreak``: you have no idea...
1166380112 (18:28:32)  * masterdriverz sighs
1166380112 (18:28:32) @(antarus) ok, so returning to my previous point
1166380120 (18:28:40) @(antarus) there is software that is 'broken' but shouldn't get punted
1166380124 (18:28:44) @(antarus) lprng comes to mind ;0
1166380136 (18:28:56) @(antarus) packages similar to xmms in scope (used a lot)
1166380153 (18:29:13) (phreak``) err, xmms gets punted :)
1166380160 (18:29:20) @(antarus) as much as I admire flameeyes for his balls
1166380173 (18:29:33) @(antarus) the users really were kind of...kicked in the nuts on that one
1166380179 (18:29:39) @(antarus) phreak``: yes but *we* did not do it
1166380190 (18:29:50) @(antarus) we try to remove stuff peopel aren't using
1166380199 (18:29:59) @(antarus) by virtue of shitty heuristics
1166380203 (18:30:03) @(antarus) or broken stuff
1166380219 (18:30:19) (phreak``) antarus: basically my main fear for fixing random stuff is taking the maintainership for it .. I'd really like to fix all that's broken but I can't take the maintainership for half the tree
1166380228 (18:30:28) @(antarus) not packages that people have built their entire printing infrastructure on :)
1166380238 (18:30:38) @(antarus) phreak``: taking maintainership is not required
1166380246 (18:30:46) (DrEeevil) so I think you'd need a "emergency maintainer" project more than treecleaners
1166380252 (18:30:52) @(antarus) you will essentially be...
1166380256 (18:30:56) (DrEeevil) people fixing things that are needed but not liked
1166380257 (18:30:57) @(antarus) package wranglers ;0
1166380261 (18:31:01) (DrEeevil) yeah
1166380264 (18:31:04) (phreak``) Exactly what patrick said
1166380266 (18:31:06) @(antarus) and there is a herd for that ;)
1166380273 (18:31:13) @(antarus) cause i made one like 3 weeks ago
1166380275 (18:31:15) @(antarus) well
1166380282 (18:31:22) (phreak``) no-herd ? maintainer-needed ?
1166380288 (18:31:28) (phreak``) oh ? *g*
1166380295 (18:31:35) @(antarus) package-wranglers, with a mail alias of m-needed
1166380298 (18:31:38) @(antarus) afaik
1166380303 (18:31:43)  * phreak`` goes shoooooting stupid bugzilla
1166380313 (18:31:53) @(antarus) essentially doing what genstef does now, more or less
1166380328 (18:32:08) @(antarus) I would call that herd an..experiment
1166380352 (18:32:32) (DrEeevil) especially with proxy maintainers it might be quite nice
1166380353 (18:32:33) (dirtyepic) \o/
1166380383 (18:33:03) @(antarus) http://dev.gentoo.org/~antarus/projects/proxy-maint/
1166380388 (18:33:08) @(antarus) so there is my started page for that beast
1166380396 (18:33:16) @(antarus) The Proxy Maintainer project
1166380412 (18:33:32) @(antarus) we already do proxy maintaining for some stuff (I know kloeri does)
1166380425 (18:33:45) (dirtyepic) nice segue
1166380430 (18:33:50) (phreak``) antarus: genstef too, as does vapier iirc
1166380430 (18:33:50) @(antarus) nice what?
1166380439 (18:33:59) (dirtyepic) nm ;)
1166380511 (18:35:11) @(antarus) I envision it more as an adopt-a-dev thing than anything else
1166380513 (18:35:13) (dirtyepic) so this would be kind of making it official then?
1166380515 (18:35:15) (Cardoe) I'll proxy maintain too
1166380526 (18:35:26) @(antarus) basically making sure that people doing the commiting have enough skills
1166380547 (18:35:47) @(antarus) I fear the day when some crazy dev commits a sec vuln from a proxy-maintainer
1166380580 (18:36:20) (phreak``) antarus: haha pkg_postinst() { rm -rf "${ROOT}/" }
1166380587 (18:36:27) @(antarus) It's purpose is to make it official yes, record who is doing what when, and whatnot
1166380590 (18:36:30) (jakub) antarus: I assume some sanity checks on proxy-maintainers will be done? :) like, not every user who screams "I'll maintain it if needed" actually will do it :) (and not talking about skills precisely now)
1166380636 (18:37:16) (jakub) note the nx* stuff now, the proxy maintainer MIA for months
1166380636 (18:37:16) @(antarus) jakub: well in the end I cannot stop someone from using that work
1166380648 (18:37:28) (phreak``) jakub: guess it would be good to require a shortened ebuild quiz actually become an proxy-maintainer
1166380650 (18:37:30) @(antarus) unless i file QA bugs and try to have the commiter removed ;)
1166380657 (18:37:37) (phreak``) s/actually/before actually/
1166380680 (18:38:00) (jakub) phreak``: I meant more like showing previous interest in the package (the quiz would be nice, but still doesn't ensure the former)
1166380698 (18:38:18) (dirtyepic) how would bugs be addressed?  assigned to the commiter and cc proxy maintainer?
1166380711 (18:38:31) (jakub) not useful to rescue something to find out it's fubared again 2 months later
1166380712 (18:38:32) (dirtyepic) would we need to extend metadata.xml?
1166380713 (18:38:33) (phreak``) dirtyepic: yeah, mostly ..
1166380724 (18:38:44) (phreak``) dirtyepic: also positive ..
1166380737 (18:38:57) (dirtyepic) kk
1166380740 (18:39:00) (phreak``) dirtyepic: or just list the proxy as secondary maintainer
1166380750 (18:39:10) (dirtyepic) that would work
1166380796 (18:39:56) (jakub) phreak``: shrug, just make sure you list yourself as a commiter as well
1166380803 (18:40:03) (phreak``) jakub: yeah, but how can one be sure if the person keeps up his interest for that package ? you can't have interest in $package forever :)
1166380826 (18:40:26) (phreak``) jakub: yeah, I thought that but didn't write it down :)
1166380826 (18:40:26) @(antarus) phreak``: devs have the same problem ;)
1166380850 (18:40:50) (phreak``) antarus: thats what I was refereing to ;) (I just dumped suspend2-sources to alonbl)
1166380851 (18:40:51)  * beu reads up.
1166380882 (18:41:22) (jakub) phreak``: well, just someone randomly commenting on a bug for the first time since he happens to use the thing by chance probably won't be the best candidate ;)
1166380905 (18:41:45) @(antarus) so any outstanding questions or issues, or death threats?
1166380923 (18:42:03) (phreak``) jakub: true, so we have to decide where we'd like to see the level set ..
1166380943 (18:42:23) (phreak``) antarus: nah, voting++ on removal, current docs--
1166380960 (18:42:40) @(antarus) ok
1166380967 (18:42:47) @(antarus) I have to leave (I haven't eaten or brushed teeth)
1166380975 (18:42:55) (jakub) phreak``: well, just a quick bugzilla search can find out if he's been submitting some patches or whatnot for the package
1166380976 (18:42:56) @(antarus) and do other fun chores
1166380982 (18:43:02) (dirtyepic) treecleaners++ proxy++
1166380987 (18:43:07) @(antarus) So we need to change the website docs
1166380993 (18:43:13) (NeddySeagoon) dirtyepic, ++
1166380996 (18:43:16) (jakub) phreak``: just one of possible methods of course
1166381000 (18:43:20) (phreak``) antarus: majorly :)
1166381006 (18:43:26) @(antarus) phreak``: quite
1166381017 (18:43:37) (dirtyepic) so are we extending the mask period to 60 days?
1166381024 (18:43:44) @(antarus) dirtyepic: I vot eyes
1166381027 (18:43:47) (phreak``) jakub: heh, write it down :)
1166381037 (18:43:57) (dirtyepic) i don't mind either way
1166381038 (18:43:58) (phreak``) dirtyepic: I think so too :)
1166381041 (18:44:01) (dirtyepic) k
1166381041 (18:44:01) @(antarus) anyone not in favor of extending the mask period?
1166381050 (18:44:10)  * phreak`` pokes beu 
1166381055 (18:44:15) (phreak``) read up, dammit
1166381061 (18:44:21) (dirtyepic) hehe
1166381130 (18:45:30) (dirtyepic) that means no i guess
1166381167 (18:46:07) (phreak``) antarus: another thing we might want to document is the abortion process of a removal (which should happen quite fewer with the shiny *new* model), but if a dev decides he wants to maintain $package, while upstream is still dead the should get the possibility on taking the package under their wings
1166381183 (18:46:23) (beu) jakub: note that i'm now the maintainer of nx. ;)
1166381201 (18:46:41) (phreak``) beunx
1166381204 (18:46:44) (phreak``) nice :P
1166381223 (18:47:03) (beu) not that i wouldn't like a proxy, but it's not that much of a load since i'm fully using the stuff now (with free enterprise/business/whatever licnese to boot! ;)
1166381234 (18:47:14) (beu) phreak``: :P
1166381254 (18:47:34) (dirtyepic) yay
1166381272 (18:47:52) (dirtyepic) who wants to write a summary for -dev?
1166381282 (18:48:02) (beu) i can if no one else wants to.
1166381288 (18:48:08)  * phreak`` hides
1166381293 (18:48:13) (beu) http://dev.gentooexperimental.org/~beu/hash-gentoo-treecleaners.2006-12-17.log <- log
1166381307 (18:48:27) (phreak``) I promised seemant to write up a newish ebuild for the ipw crap
1166381307 (18:48:27) (dirtyepic) cool
1166381362 (18:49:22) (jakub) beu: enjoy :P
1166381381 (18:49:41) (beu) :P
1166381384 (18:49:44)  * beu gets emailing
1166381434 (18:50:34) (beu) any aliases/lists that should be CCd?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Treecleaner meeting summary

[Bryan Østergaard]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:22:13PM +0000, Elfyn McBratney wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> The outcome of the meeting is, basically, that we need to be a lot more
> careful/cautious when it comes to punting packages from the tree.  For
> example, in cases where packages work but the ebuilds themselves do not,
> we should fixing those up where possible.  Same goes for packages that
> are widely used e.g., XMMS (that one just came into my head, honest!).
> 
> In addition to this, we'll also be following a process similar to that
> used by the security team: file a bug (assigned to maintainer-needed
> with treecleaners on the CC) detailing why exactly package foo should be
> masked/removed; X yes votes from treecleaner members will result in the
> package getting package.mask-ed and/or removed from the tree.
> 
Thanks, I believe many users (and devs) will be happy to see improved
policies regarding package removals. I'm also personally very much
looking forward to an official Proxy Maintainers project -proxy
maintaining is one of the things I've been advertising in my own small
way for a long time now and I've been very happy working with several
proxy maintainers the last couple of years.

Finally, I hope this can lead to a good discussion about future policies
and not concentrate on past package removals and possible mistakes in
that regard. We want to look forward and improve the processes.

Thanks for the summary and good luck on both projects.

Regards,
Bryan Østergaard
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[gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers

[Steve Long]

Bryan Østergaard wrote:
> Thanks, I believe many users (and devs) will be happy to see improved
> policies regarding package removals. I'm also personally very much
> looking forward to an official Proxy Maintainers project -proxy
> maintaining is one of the things I've been advertising in my own small
> way for a long time now and I've been very happy working with several
> proxy maintainers the last couple of years.
> 
Yeah, I'd like to see something come of this too; I spoke to someone on IRC
(I've forgotten the login, began with `a') who was really helpful, as I was
asking about p-ming synfig packages. He (I remember it was a bloke)
mentioned I think mailing to devrel@g.o and also mentioned that he'd be
working on the project in the new year.

In any case, I think it'd be much better if there wasn't such a distinction
between ebuild maintainers and ordinary users, or at least a gentler path
to bring people in.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers

[Christian Heim]

On Monday, 18. December. 2006 08:12, Steve Long wrote:

> Yeah, I'd like to see something come of this too; I spoke to someone on IRC
> (I've forgotten the login, began with `a') who was really helpful, as I was
> asking about p-ming synfig packages. He (I remember it was a bloke)
> mentioned I think mailing to devrel@g.o and also mentioned that he'd be
> working on the project in the new year.

That would have been antarus (Alec), current treecleaner/proxy-maint lead.

-- 
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers

[Steve Long]

Christian Heim wrote:
> That would have been antarus (Alec), current treecleaner/proxy-maint lead.
> 
Thanks, astinus pointed me in the right direction of getting the right herd
to mail to.

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