From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GHSOd-0001vd-Kg for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:42:24 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id k7RLf3I8007113; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:41:03 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k7RLcHoS000182 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:38:17 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1285C64144 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:38:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04744-06 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:38:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC8E64333 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:38:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1GHSKM-0003Nh-32 for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:37:58 +0200 Received: from ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.97.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:37:58 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:37:58 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: "Duncan" <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Democracy: No silver bullet Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:37:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <44ECF00D.7050107@gentoo.org> <1156678084l.9833l.0l@spike> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: pan 0.109 (Beable) Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Archives-Salt: f72c5c91-e29d-43fb-abe9-42bd41eb8e26 X-Archives-Hash: f52441a4e33a9cad57b041bd5fa4ec91 Roy Bamford posted 1156678084l.9833l.0l@spike, excerpted below, on Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:28:04 +0100: > I think the problem(s) stem from the way Gentoo is organised now. I'm > sure you will shoot me down if I'm wrong. In summary. Gentoo is a loose > knit group of packages with individuals belonging to one or more of the > herds that maintain them. The herd/team leads are supposed to 'get > along' but on occasions, this doesn't happen. Above them is the > council. > > If that's wrong, stop reading here. There are (as usual) details, but from my read, that's pretty close. > Lets define Management - its a process of planning, communicating the > plan, getting buy in from the team(s) who will execute the plan, > gathering feedback on progress and replanning. It looks cyclic but its > really a set of concurrent activities. Google PRINCE2 for the details. > > At the top level, the council, in its present form does not manage > Gentoo. It can't, it's pretty much disempowered as a management > organisation due to the rules for its agenda setting. An acutely accurate observation, AFAICT. > If the council are to undertake the management of Gentoo, its terms of > reference need to be drastically altered to allow them to undertake the > management process defined above. > In short, Gentoo has a top level power vacuum, allowing what amounts to > the 'power struggle 'we see today. This is the best reading of the situation I've seen, IMO. Good work! Whether changing the rules to allow the council to manage appropriately is politically doable or not remains an open question, and I'm not even sure I'd back it myself if it is possible, but that's the best description of where we are at that I've seen, which means we've gone along way toward accomplishing the first step in any good debate, a proper definition of the issue. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list