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From: "Duncan" <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-dev]  Re: Democracy: No silver bullet
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:37:45 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ect3b8$kqk$4@sea.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1156678084l.9833l.0l@spike

Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> posted 1156678084l.9833l.0l@spike,
excerpted below, on  Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:28:04 +0100:

> I think the problem(s) stem from the way Gentoo is organised now. I'm
> sure you will shoot me down if I'm wrong. In summary. Gentoo is a loose
> knit group of packages with individuals belonging to one or more of the
> herds that maintain them. The herd/team leads are supposed to 'get
> along' but on occasions, this doesn't happen. Above them is the
> council.
> 
> If that's wrong, stop reading here.

There are (as usual) details, but from my read, that's pretty close.

> Lets define Management - its a process of planning, communicating the
> plan, getting buy in from the team(s) who will execute the plan,
> gathering feedback on progress and replanning. It looks cyclic but its
> really a set of concurrent activities. Google PRINCE2 for the details.
> 
> At the top level, the council, in its present form does not manage
> Gentoo. It can't, it's pretty much disempowered as a management
> organisation due to the rules for its agenda setting.

An acutely accurate observation, AFAICT.

> If the council are to undertake the management of Gentoo, its terms of
> reference need to be drastically altered to allow them to undertake the
> management process defined above.

> In short, Gentoo has a top level power vacuum, allowing what amounts to  
> the 'power struggle 'we see today.

This is the best reading of the situation I've seen, IMO.  Good work!

Whether changing the rules to allow the council to manage appropriately is
politically doable or not remains an open question, and I'm not even sure
I'd back it myself if it is possible, but that's the best description of
where we are at that I've seen, which means we've gone along
way toward accomplishing the first step in any good debate, a proper
definition of the issue.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



  reply	other threads:[~2006-08-27 21:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-08-24  0:17 [gentoo-dev] Democracy: No silver bullet Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-24  2:19 ` Daniel Ostrow
2006-08-24  3:56   ` Joshua Jackson
2006-08-24  6:47 ` Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
2006-08-24  7:52   ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-24  8:29     ` Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
2006-08-24 20:28       ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-24  6:50 ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-24  7:54   ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-24  8:26     ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-26 20:23       ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-08-24 12:13     ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-08-24 13:35     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24  8:50 ` Stuart Herbert
2006-08-24 10:39   ` Kevin F. Quinn
2006-08-24 15:13   ` Ferris McCormick
2006-08-24 21:00   ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-24 23:28     ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-08-25  5:36       ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-25  7:35         ` Andrew Cowie
2006-08-25 15:45         ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-08-25 15:55           ` Mike Doty
2006-08-25 16:08             ` Luca Barbato
2006-08-25 16:25           ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-25 16:35             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-25 17:27               ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-25 18:19                 ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-26  3:53                   ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-26 13:40                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-25 18:39                 ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-08-26  2:41           ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-25 21:48         ` Alec Warner
2006-08-26  0:43           ` Alec Warner
2006-08-25 19:41     ` Stuart Herbert
2006-08-25 19:52       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-26 20:55       ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-08-25 19:45     ` Stuart Herbert
2006-08-24 21:26   ` Michael Cummings
2006-08-24 21:37     ` Daniel Ostrow
2006-08-25 15:25       ` Mike Bonar
2006-08-24 13:42 ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-24 13:56   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24 14:11     ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-24 14:32       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24 14:58         ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-24 16:53           ` Luis Francisco Araujo
2006-08-24 18:01             ` Marius Mauch
2006-08-24 18:15               ` Luis Francisco Araujo
2006-08-24 20:09                 ` Marius Mauch
2006-08-24 20:46                   ` Luis Francisco Araujo
2006-08-24 21:51                     ` Marius Mauch
2006-08-24 22:11                       ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-26 20:59           ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-08-24 15:17         ` Luca Longinotti
2006-08-24 17:13       ` Thierry Carrez
2006-08-24 17:40         ` Mike Doty
2006-08-24 18:03           ` Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
2006-08-24 18:14             ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-24 18:27               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24 19:31               ` Homer Parker
2006-08-24 19:53                 ` Lance Albertson
     [not found]               ` <44EDF61C.40303@gentoo.org>
2006-08-24 19:45                 ` Daniel Ostrow
2006-08-24 18:55           ` Alec Warner
2006-08-24 19:55             ` Lance Albertson
2006-08-24 17:42         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24 13:54 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-08-24 22:29   ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-08-25  5:38     ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-08-25 17:13     ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-25 18:35       ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-08-25 19:49         ` Grant Goodyear
2006-08-26 10:17         ` Wernfried Haas
2006-08-26 13:01           ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-08-26 14:06             ` Stephen P. Becker
2006-08-24 14:32 ` [gentoo-dev] " Dominique Michel
2006-08-26 15:09 ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-08-27 11:28 ` Roy Bamford
2006-08-27 21:37   ` Duncan [this message]
2006-08-28 10:20     ` [gentoo-dev] " Roy Bamford
2006-09-02  7:55 ` Wiktor Wandachowicz
2006-09-03  3:11   ` Richard Fish
2006-09-03  7:15     ` Wiktor Wandachowicz
2006-09-03 19:29       ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-09-04 22:32         ` Richard Fish
2006-09-03 10:25     ` Luis Francisco Araujo
2006-09-04 22:06       ` Richard Fish

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