From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GDe7p-0005Gj-3M for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:25:17 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id k7H9NtBX007050; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:23:55 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k7H9KO4P003368 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:20:24 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24394642F0 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:20:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00468-02 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:20:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AA2647C2 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1GDe2z-0001wv-Ip for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:20:17 +0200 Received: from ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.230.97.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:20:17 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:20:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org From: "Duncan" <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: If I may interject... Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:20:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1154366720.17142.126.camel@rivendell> <20060816192939.GC552@nibiru.local> <200608161801.43378.novas007@gmx.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-230-97-209.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: pan 0.108 (Mama's Little Joyboy Loves Lobsters, Lobsters) Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Archives-Salt: 382b83e8-262d-40bc-909b-1660355847fc X-Archives-Hash: baee8860259951dce217cc1eb28f4901 Mike Lundy posted 200608161801.43378.novas007@gmx.net, excerpted below, on Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:01:37 -0700: Mike Lundy posted 200608161801.43378.novas007@gmx.net, excerpted below, on Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:01:37 -0700: > I strive to be logical about this, and as un-inflammatory as > possible. If you are going to respond, please make the same effort[.] Likewise. I consider flamewars a waste of time, but healthy debate a chance to learn something. > I told a friend that there were some in the community who called > proprietary software slaveryware. His response? "Holy shit!" If that > term spreads, we can forget about convincing otherwise logical people > that free software is the Right Way. There are two problems with it: > > 1) It's incorrect. There is nothing at this point in time that causes > you to be enslaved by proprietary software. Tell that to the many that can't leave it, due to "just one app", photoshop, games, MS Office, Outlook/Exchange, Quickbooks accounting, whatever. They are as enslaved to their "poison of choice", to combine metaphors, as the druggie, as dependant on their master's whims as a slave. As RMS says, every non-free program has a master, use the program, and you are making him /your/ master. A human with another human master is called... a slave. Note that some slavery can have been voluntary at some point. That's indentured servitude, but it's considered a form of slavery. When one can't leave, as these people can't, well, slavery it becomes, whether it was originally voluntary or not. > 2) It's intentionally offensive. Intentionally accurate, IMO. Intentionally thought provoking as well, but the nomenclature is IMO 100% accurate. Note that repeated "IMO". Others are of course free to have their own opinion and call it what they want. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it. I'll continue to choose a label that matches my opinion thereof. "Slaveryware" is what I call it because that's a very concise term defining my opinion of it. What you call it is your choice, "the best thing since sliced bread", if you want. That doesn't mean I have to agree with you, nor that I expect you to agree with me. It's simply defining how each of us feels about it. > Can you imagine explaining to your mother about slaveryware? Actually, yes. My family is reasonably aware of my feelings on the matter and why I hold them. I've described my journey from proprietaryware in terms of a defector leaving the only land he ever knew, family, friends, way of life, sacrificing it all because of a belief in freedom. Just as a defector, I know I could never go back unless there's a regime change. Just as a defector, I look back on that old life as pretty much a different person in a different time. I still have friends in the old country, but I recognize they must make their own choice, take their own risks in their own time. Some may eventually choose to do so, and I'll be here to welcome them and help them get settled in their new land. Others may never choose to do it. I still consider them friends, yearning for them to choose freedom too, but there is now a difference separating us, as long as they haven't yet done so. My folks know and understand my feelings on it, tho they don't share them. As the defector, I recognize there are some that may agree to one extent or another, but simply find they are too old to pull up roots and move, now. I understand this is where my folks are, and am as comfortable with it as the defector could/would be, because in a very real sense, that's really what I am. As I said in my first post, I truly believe this stuff. Some label me a radical as a result. I'm comfortable with that, because from my perspective it puts me in some pretty fine company in terms of many others who have been called radical because they refused to compromise on what they considered freedom. However, it wouldn't be freedom at all if I were to force the same beliefs on others, so I don't. I refuse to compromise in terms of my own beliefs and definitions, but define them only in terms of my own life. Unfortunately (IMO), too often people try to force others into their own belief set. In turn, they expect I'm doing the same. No, I'm not. They can deal with it as they see fit, but I demand and positively assert my right and ability to do the same. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list