From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A390138334 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E8171E095C; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from othala.iewc.co.za (othala.iewc.co.za [IPv6:2c0f:f720:0:3:21e:67ff:fe14:6ae5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F051E094A for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [165.16.203.53] (helo=[192.168.42.106]) by othala.iewc.co.za with esmtp (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1iKg9I-0001DX-DN; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 12:03:20 +0200 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org, David Seifert References: <20191012110023.165840-1-soap@gentoo.org> <1bbad081be57654e20e590734ed8aa88dc6f6176.camel@gentoo.org> <20191012160228.GA2481@linux1.home> <25763900.3IMS5cSOPn@ernie> <86031cc11741c13b354ad85577a1e32c4ca97460.camel@gentoo.org> <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> <2b4de5d1-e5f3-1c9d-792f-0e64002d04e3@uls.co.za> <5b46c29caf46e7b0294509a243cc80b35173dfb2.camel@gentoo.org> From: Jaco Kroon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jaco@uls.co.za; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFXtplYBCADM6RTLCOSPiclevkn/gdf8h9l+kKA6N+WGIIFuUtoc9Gaf8QhXWW/fvUq2 a3eo4ULVFT1jJ56Vfm4MssGA97NZtlOe3cg8QJMZZhsoN5wetG9SrJvT9Rlltwo5nFmXY3ZY gXsdwkpDr9Y5TqBizx7DGxMd/mrOfXeql57FWFeOc2GuJBnHPZQMJsQ66l2obPn36hWEtHYN gcUSPH3OOusSEGZg/oX/8WSDQ/b8xz1JKTEgcnu/JR0FxzjY19zSHmbnyVU+/gF3oeJFcEUk HvZu776LRVdcZ0lb1bHQB2K9rTZBVeZLitgAefPVH2uERVSO8EZO1I5M7afV0Kd/Vyn9ABEB AAG0G0phY28gS3Jvb24gPGphY29AdWxzLmNvLnphPokBNwQTAQgAIQUCVe2mVgIbAwULCQgH AgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRAILcSxr/fungCPB/sHrfufpRbrVTtHUjpbY4bTQLQE bVrh4/yMiKprALRYy0nsMivl16Q/3rNWXJuQ0gR/faC3yNlDgtEoXx8noXOhva9GGHPGTaPT hhpcp/1E4C9Ghcaxw3MRapVnSKnSYL+zOOpkGwye2+fbqwCkCYCM7Vu6ws3+pMzJNFK/UOgW Tj8O5eBa3DiU4U26/jUHEIg74U+ypYPcj5qXG0xNXmmoDpZweW41Cfo6FMmgjQBTEGzo9e5R kjc7MH3+IyJvP4bzE5Paq0q0b5zZ8DUJFtT7pVb3FQTz1v3CutLlF1elFZzd9sZrg+mLA5PM o8PG9FLw9ZtTE314vgMWJ+TTYX0kuQENBFXtplYBCADedX9HSSJozh4YIBT+PuLWCTJRLTLu jXU7HobdK1EljPAi1ahCUXJR+NHvpJLSq/N5rtL12ejJJ4EMMp2UUK0IHz4kx26FeAJuOQMe GEzoEkiiR15ufkApBCRssIj5B8OA/351Y9PFore5KJzQf1psrCnMSZoJ89KLfU7C5S+ooX9e re2aWgu5jqKgKDLa07/UVHyxDTtQKRZSFibFCHbMELYKDr3tUdUfCDqVjipCzHmLZ+xMisfn yX9aTVI3FUIs8UiqM5xlxqfuCnDrKBJjQs3uvmd6cyhPRmnsjase48RoO84Ckjbp/HVu0+1+ 6vgiPjbe4xk7Ehkw1mfSxb79ABEBAAGJAR8EGAEIAAkFAlXtplYCGwwACgkQCC3Esa/37p7u XwgAjpFzUj+GMmo8ZeYwHH6YfNZQV+hfesr7tqlZn5DhQXJgT2NF6qh5Vn8TcFPR4JZiVIkF o0je7c8FJe34Aqex/H9R8LxvhENX/YOtq5+PqZj59y9G9+0FFZ1CyguTDC845zuJnnR5A0lw FARZaL8T7e6UGphtiT0NdR7EXnJ/alvtsnsNudtvFnKtigYvtw2wthW6CLvwrFjsuiXPjVUX 825zQUnBHnrED6vG67UG4z5cQ4uY/LcSNsqBsoj6/wsT0pnqdibhCWmgFimOsSRgaF7qsVtg TWyQDTjH643+qYbJJdH91LASRLrenRCgpCXgzNWAMX6PJlqLrNX1Ye4CQw== Organization: Ultimate Linux Solutions (Pty) Ltd Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 12:03:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5b46c29caf46e7b0294509a243cc80b35173dfb2.camel@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Spam-report: Relay access (othala.iewc.co.za). X-Archives-Salt: 6e94868c-7653-42d0-b17a-80d4717290e0 X-Archives-Hash: 0612e2bea14c3246ed58b99db8077a0e Hi, -- large trim -- >> For what it's worth. All of my systems are installed with a fixed- >> size >> 512MB / with everything else (including /usr) on separate LVs. >> >> Whilst sbin vs bin is just a matter of what's available, to me it >> makes >> sense to keep these split. To me it's always been logical to keep >> administrative type (root) tools under sbin, and stuff that's >> generally >> useful for users under bin. >> >> Keeping / and /usr split (or the ability to keep it split) is rather >> crucial for me. It's for historic installations a matter of space >> constraints on /. For new installations it's a matter of keeping / >> as >> small as possible in order to have a smallish bootable system which >> can >> be used for recovering the rest of the system, ideally without an >> initrd >> (which also works to an extent). >> >> Kind Regards, >> Jaco >> > For the umpteenth time time: nothing will change. You can keep your > (albeit broken) separate / and /usr partitions. *NOTHING* will change > for anyone. There are no plans to change the defaults. This is *MERELY* > about giving people the chance to opt in to the /usr-merge. Thanks for the confirmation.  As long as it's an OPTION I'm happy.  And no, other than on my desktop machine a split /usr is working very well, and even in that case a split off /lib/firmware actually caused me much, much more problems (for i915 and amdgpu firmware) than a split /usr.  Unfortunately /lib/firmware grew over the years and so I had no choice other than to split it off after the fact. > > That said, the idea of using / as a "recovery" filesystem in general is > broken: > https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/ > And no, this is not systemd breaking your system, or Lennart, it's > distros and userlands not being careful to have things in / never > depend on things in /usr. It's saved my butt more than once when the (extremely) limited tools in the initrds on those same systems failed to do so.  Mostly these cases weren't Gentoo.  Yes RHEL, I'm looking at you.  Gentoo I generally recover crazy faults without the use of system rescue CDs (probably required it 10 times over 15 years).  Can't say the same for those distro's pushing for "recovery systems in initrd", and I'm running probably 3x more Gentoo systems than all other distro's combined. The only stuff so far I really wished worked without /usr was editors such as vim and/or nano (sed sufficed in those cases). Would contributing a script that's able to check which binaries in /bin (and /sbin) depend on libs not also on / be useful here?  Perhaps as a QA check somehow? And I get that that's a completely different rabbit hole ... 1.  What about non-lib files, eg, /usr/share/zoneinfo? 2.  Should such binaries be moved to /usr or should the libraries be moved to /? X.  a gazillion things I haven't even started to think about. Kind Regards, Jaco > >