From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-dev+bounces-83365-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org> Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 534E1138330 for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:50:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5CCC3E0970; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:50:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout06.plus.net (avasout06.plus.net [212.159.14.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7071E094E for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:50:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([212.159.46.162]) by smtp with ESMTP id ZHhseDZHVe5nXZHhuen3oP; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:50:22 +0000 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TsHIegfh c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:117 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=EM1FLKRHAAAA:8 a=vGY7XakPAAAA:8 a=-QMPON29m7RKWy2JW0QA:9 a=7Zwj6sZBwVKJAoWSPKxL6X1jA+E=:19 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=gxsNB4-PEk_8QNtDgTwA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming posting restrictions on the gentoo-dev mailing list To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <1685019.DAF74n7IXa@pinacolada> <20180110054855.GA4483@angelfall.a21an.org> <20180110085511.71b42c93@abudhabi.paradoxon.rec> <1515581849.31546.22.camel@gentoo.org> <55c6983b-511c-aeb6-c7ef-6f5848ccc797@gmail.com> From: "M. J. Everitt" <m.j.everitt@iee.org> Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Message-ID: <e95c3710-e0b2-91c3-7da9-c61a8d3cc65e@iee.org> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:50:20 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55c6983b-511c-aeb6-c7ef-6f5848ccc797@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Oqes4A8E43UHOFKWWisA4VvsqWPgwNOq6" X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfOieQJjALIXuWHRc/LX65ltxYE0ncs4ECjAn4xQqM5somsSCHqqjN+g0ia36jIQYVkgxvQkD3luI7/vJFOYw09gC9cXSa3QXGju7b036eUYCAxFLs5/W xYtUMaI50r+buAJm3P0e1k0vsHNR24LfW0HJAENIpeJjw/j+QDxkDiMBMvnwFk4vGEkYkOecBIoKPg== X-Archives-Salt: e6d2d0ef-d216-44ac-be2f-e8a311b0bab1 X-Archives-Hash: 3e672becb7663c7449a25478af2c3bc2 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Oqes4A8E43UHOFKWWisA4VvsqWPgwNOq6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="wvCr8rfntgfO4gTOupBWtHOC3loO35DlE"; protected-headers="v1" From: "M. J. Everitt" <m.j.everitt@iee.org> To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <e95c3710-e0b2-91c3-7da9-c61a8d3cc65e@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming posting restrictions on the gentoo-dev mailing list References: <1685019.DAF74n7IXa@pinacolada> <20180110054855.GA4483@angelfall.a21an.org> <20180110085511.71b42c93@abudhabi.paradoxon.rec> <1515581849.31546.22.camel@gentoo.org> <55c6983b-511c-aeb6-c7ef-6f5848ccc797@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <55c6983b-511c-aeb6-c7ef-6f5848ccc797@gmail.com> --wvCr8rfntgfO4gTOupBWtHOC3loO35DlE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/01/18 13:49, kuzetsa wrote: > On 01/10/2018 05:57 AM, David Seifert wrote: >> On Wed, 2018-01-10 at 08:55 +0100, Lars Wendler wrote: >>> On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:48:56 +0300 Eray Aslan wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 09, 2018 at 10:20:56PM +0100, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: >>>>> * Posting to the list will only be possible to Gentoo developers >>>>> and >>>>> whitelisted additional participants. =20 >>>> This is so contrary to what I and I thought Gentoo stands for: >>>> openness, transparency, inclusiveness even when these require a >>>> rather >>>> thick skin and result in high noise. It's a price worth paying. >>>> >>>> I guess I should a) pay more attention to council elections b) >>>> consider >>>> the idea that the whole council thing as it stands now is just not >>>> working. >>>> >>> Wow. I couldn't have said it better.=20 >>> Seems we're turning into an elitist club or something...=20 >>> I wonder how many users we're going to loose on this one. Well done >>> council :-( >>> >> If your only reason to use Gentoo is because you can post to the main >> developer ML, and not because we try to provide a great distribution >> with lots of choice, a current toolchain and lots of customization, >> then you're likely using the wrong distribution. >> > If development of a quality distribution which meets > these goals requires thick skin, something is broken: > > I've never seen anything from the gentoo foundation > which suggests that the gentoo developer mail list > should be considered a safe space for disparaging > remarks. Think of the messaging on this - for every > 1 or 2 people who are willing to come forward to > address these concerns, there are likely "not zero" > who didn't want to deal with confrontation and the > risk that rudeness and hostile behavior would be > defended. > Your argument seems partially contradictory here, and I think the interpretation may be muddled with language barriers for those developers/users with English as a foreign language ... Are you reinforcing the point [widely accepted by many whose heads aren't in the proverbial sand[0]] that Gentoo is [or is becoming] an elitist club, or condoning "bad behaviour" by both devs and non-devs on the mailing lists.... Your final point, however, makes a lot of sense .. [1] [0] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/head-in-the-sand [1] - https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/keep+head+down --wvCr8rfntgfO4gTOupBWtHOC3loO35DlE-- --Oqes4A8E43UHOFKWWisA4VvsqWPgwNOq6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJaVigsAAoJEGPnxnn01DHd4l0P/0EDiRlZ8Ga8gtocZFrr5X0B DcqmzfZrYKvB2dRtB9+BgjLKgu2gGMdQ3iP+6sBVJSWZAzJM3Cam5QCYBXqZ9O6n gKcrnhXPog7eov4pHtQfhSPprbB9c98Ss2XO/X7I77JhUv/53ZLBcT6XdehzeLZN L8+q0UU8cUBA/CGiz/NAGpSeJm8PWk2iR/ZzYlzoKXmSGElAQoNLiMif04izfMXs HA0FR/RqbpPEc+WsMpgCEMSXQ0CGVqKCxPh5VNa90p2xCrn839N1ctWHVJ6+njHY VF5ZvFlIGC+1I+BHaY/H/mkDo+Ia+AtZKiDAis9NdhuxFGI7bbJwJLSa51XY7sz2 LKWewgxo3e+NOvqlHzO/lGNq1n8ZP5S5+K4ULZYvSgpRdhiSBpbIwjCv3i6Zmh2e uRJfQ2oc65k/1E5NmgQWQgl/00jy+IKW60eiweu3iqZ+pablPVWB5ZZJ8R2QDpay Md9FdPcMyCSYif8Iu5f3214os9VluwcieNNwNBWVUlb/kdg+o0+igxdI2Jmx/q/A QVzjUZcV2r/bt67lqoiOtAWLmQzMKC9r7suShMDO0x2bzFqWrQdoXutl9rDLOom2 Egx2czxVw9P6ZM2wxNb6RrvclWDKMqjmOg4btE2p0TYb5AyDNSWlnRuH9Sdi9POh +5CFYSgcDUfqfl1jUr9N =7ZFf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Oqes4A8E43UHOFKWWisA4VvsqWPgwNOq6--