[gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Ben de Groot]

As announced 5 months ago[1], Gentoo's Qt team now officially
deprecates usage of x11-libs/qt:3 and packages depending on this
version of Qt. The only supported and maintained version of Qt, both
by the upstream developers (Nokia) and the Gentoo Qt Project, is now
only version 4 (specifically >=4.5.3). As a result we have decided on
a policy and timeline for the removal of qt:3 and ebuilds depending on
it. We are dedicated to do anything we reasonably can to make sure
that Qt4 versions or equivalents of the remaining Qt3 packages in the
portage tree are available. The deprecated ebuilds for qt:3, and
packages using it, will remain available in the community-maintained
kde-sunset overlay.


# Timeline #

2010-01-01:

* mark qt:3 as deprecated with ewarn
* mask qt3 useflag in profiles
* add ewarn to qt3.eclass with link to removal policy
* prepare news item about qt:3 deprecation and future removal

2010-01-21:

* Qt team meeting: discuss actions to be taken regarding remaining
pkgs that use qt:3

2010-02-21:

* mask qt:3 and depending ebuilds, pending removal

2010-03-21:

* remove qt:3 and depending ebuilds from the tree
* remove masks
* clean profiles from qt3 remnants
* mark qt3.eclass as deprecated pending later removal


# Policy for remaining ebuilds depending on qt:3 #

* if Qt3 optional, remove this option
* if Qt4 depending version stable, remove Qt3 depending versions
* if Qt4 depending version in testing, mark stable, then remove older versions
* if no Qt4 version in tree, get Qt4 version in testing by 2010-01-21
and stable by 2010-02-21
* if no Qt4 version exists, check for equivalent/replacement packages,
and mask by 2010-02-21

Note: for packages that currently have no version marked stable, the
references to stabling Qt4 versions obviously don't apply.

1: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d851e05567d538b662f34de8dfdb7316.xml

Cheers,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer, Gentoo Qt Project lead
______________________________________________________

Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Zhu Sha Zang]

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Em 30-12-2009 15:14, Ben de Groot escreveu:
> As announced 5 months ago[1], Gentoo's Qt team now officially
> deprecates usage of x11-libs/qt:3 and packages depending on this
> version of Qt. The only supported and maintained version of Qt, both
> by the upstream developers (Nokia) and the Gentoo Qt Project, is now
> only version 4 (specifically >=4.5.3). As a result we have decided on
> a policy and timeline for the removal of qt:3 and ebuilds depending on
> it. We are dedicated to do anything we reasonably can to make sure
> that Qt4 versions or equivalents of the remaining Qt3 packages in the
> portage tree are available. The deprecated ebuilds for qt:3, and
> packages using it, will remain available in the community-maintained
> kde-sunset overlay.
> 
> 
> # Timeline #
> 
> 2010-01-01:
> 
> * mark qt:3 as deprecated with ewarn
> * mask qt3 useflag in profiles
> * add ewarn to qt3.eclass with link to removal policy
> * prepare news item about qt:3 deprecation and future removal
> 
> 2010-01-21:
> 
> * Qt team meeting: discuss actions to be taken regarding remaining
> pkgs that use qt:3
> 
> 2010-02-21:
> 
> * mask qt:3 and depending ebuilds, pending removal
> 
> 2010-03-21:
> 
> * remove qt:3 and depending ebuilds from the tree
> * remove masks
> * clean profiles from qt3 remnants
> * mark qt3.eclass as deprecated pending later removal
> 
> 
> # Policy for remaining ebuilds depending on qt:3 #
> 
> * if Qt3 optional, remove this option
> * if Qt4 depending version stable, remove Qt3 depending versions
> * if Qt4 depending version in testing, mark stable, then remove older versions
> * if no Qt4 version in tree, get Qt4 version in testing by 2010-01-21
> and stable by 2010-02-21
> * if no Qt4 version exists, check for equivalent/replacement packages,
> and mask by 2010-02-21
> 
> Note: for packages that currently have no version marked stable, the
> references to stabling Qt4 versions obviously don't apply.
> 
> 1: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d851e05567d538b662f34de8dfdb7316.xml
> 
> Cheers,

A question:

My systems don't use qt3 use flag since six months ago, but using
qt3support USE FLAG. It's sane keep this flag set in make.conf?

Thanks for now.

p.s.: sorry if this is not the place to this question.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Espen Hustad]

2009/12/30 Zhu Sha Zang <zhushazang@yahoo.com.br>:

>> Cheers,
>
> A question:
>
> My systems don't use qt3 use flag since six months ago, but using
> qt3support USE FLAG. It's sane keep this flag set in make.conf?

If you use KDE or anything else that depends on the qt3support use
flag, then it is a requirement.
qt3support isn't Qt3, it is just an extra part of the Qt4 api for
easing Qt3 -> Qt4 porting.

HTH

Espen

Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Ben de Groot]

2009/12/30 Zhu Sha Zang <zhushazang@yahoo.com.br>:
> A question:
>
> My systems don't use qt3 use flag since six months ago, but using
> qt3support USE FLAG. It's sane keep this flag set in make.conf?

Absolutely. That useflag is also enabled by default in the desktop
profile, because KDE4 depends on it. Qt3support is a Qt4 module and
does not depend on qt:3. It is used to make it easier for developers
to port Qt3 apps to Qt4.

Cheers,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
______________________________________________________

Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Richard Freeman]

On 12/30/2009 12:14 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> 2010-01-21:
>
> * Qt team meeting: discuss actions to be taken regarding remaining
> pkgs that use qt:3
>
> 2010-02-21:
>
> * mask qt:3 and depending ebuilds, pending removal

30 days isn't a long time.  How about filing bugs against anything that 
currently uses qt3 right away, so that maintainers have an extra three 
weeks to resolve these issues?  Granted, one would hope they've been 
paying attention.

As a random example, the current stable version of mythtv uses qt3, but 
I don't see any open bugs about that (that package is probably an easy 
fix as the newer versions use qt3support, and that version is already 
stable upstream).

Usually the approach in these situations is to have a big tracker bug 
for qt3 removal and a million blocker bugs against individual packages. 
  I'm not saying you can't move forward until everybody else gets their 
acts together, but tracking this in bugzilla probably isn't a bad move 
if it isn't too much work.  Plus, you might decide that one or two of 
the blockers really are critical, and decide to work with those 
maintainers more closely or escalate the issue.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Samuli Suominen]

On 12/31/2009 02:39 PM, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 12/30/2009 12:14 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> 2010-01-21:
>>
>> * Qt team meeting: discuss actions to be taken regarding remaining
>> pkgs that use qt:3
>>
>> 2010-02-21:
>>
>> * mask qt:3 and depending ebuilds, pending removal
> 
> 30 days isn't a long time.  How about filing bugs against anything that
> currently uses qt3 right away, so that maintainers have an extra three
> weeks to resolve these issues?  Granted, one would hope they've been
> paying attention.
> 
> As a random example, the current stable version of mythtv uses qt3, but
> I don't see any open bugs about that (that package is probably an easy
> fix as the newer versions use qt3support, and that version is already
> stable upstream).

"Stable" MythTV has more issues than just Qt3, as the current stable
doesn't compile anymore, http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=280303
which is about to get masked tomorrow with kdelibs-3...

Just saying...

[gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Hi,

Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org>:
> Just saying...

 Please track progress somehow.  I know it is a lot of work, but makes
understanding the process easier.

V-Li

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://gentoo.faulhammer.org/>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Samuli Suominen]

On 12/31/2009 03:13 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org>:
>> Just saying...
> 
>  Please track progress somehow.  I know it is a lot of work, but makes
> understanding the process easier.
> 
> V-Li
> 

It's been done in,

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=292791

Overall here's the current status of kdelibs-3.5 reverse deps:

Old KOffice 1.x (2.x is marked stable):

app-i18n/koffice-i18n
=app-office/karbon-1.6*
=app-office/kchart-1.6*
=app-office/kexi-1.6*
=app-office/kformula-1.6*
=app-office/kivio-1.6*
=app-office/koffice-data-1.6*
=app-office/koffice-libs-1.6*
=app-office/koffice-meta-1.6*
=app-office/koshell-1.6*
=app-office/kplato-1.6*
=app-office/kpresenter-1.6*
=app-office/krita-1.6*
=app-office/kspread-1.6*
=app-office/kugar-1.6*
=app-office/kword-1.6*

Unused KDE 3.5.x deps, was only needed for KOffice 1.x:

=kde-base/kcminit-3.5*
=kde-base/kcontrol-3.5*
=kde-base/kde-i18n-3.5*
=kde-base/kdebase-data-3.5*
=kde-base/kdelibs-3.5*
=kde-base/kdepasswd-3.5*
=kde-base/kdesu-3.5*
=kde-base/kdialog-3.5*
=kde-base/kdnssd-3.5*
=kde-base/kghostview-3.5*
=kde-base/khotkeys-3.5*
=kde-base/kicker-3.5*
=kde-base/kmenuedit-3.5*
=kde-base/libkonq-3.5*
kde-misc/kdnssd-avahi

Broken MythTV:

~media-plugins/mythbrowser-0.21_p17105

And these are really shame to lose, but they are going in a collateral
damage, many of which have other bugs open as well, ones like "If Qt4 is
installed, it doesn't compile as it's linking to wrong lib" -style bugs

games-arcade/kamikaze
games-board/hearts
games-board/six
games-board/slibo
games-emulation/kvisualboyadvance
games-mud/xpertmud
games-simulation/kfreeflight
games-strategy/boson

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Richard Freeman]

On 12/31/2009 08:24 AM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> On 12/31/2009 03:13 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Samuli Suominen<ssuominen@gentoo.org>:
>>> Just saying...
>>
>>   Please track progress somehow.  I know it is a lot of work, but makes
>> understanding the process easier.
>>
>> V-Li
>>
>
> It's been done in,
>
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=292791
>

That is for kdelibs-3.5 - not for qt-3.  However, it wouldn't shock me 
if the list is almost identical.  If the opinion of those with more 
knowledge of such things it that the one effectively covers the other I 
have no objections to not duplicating work...  If not maybe a tracker 
for any additional qt3 packages that aren't already tracked might not 
hurt, or we could lump them in together since from a work perspective 
they're almost the same.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Richard Freeman]

On 12/31/2009 07:51 AM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> "Stable" MythTV has more issues than just Qt3, as the current stable
> doesn't compile anymore, http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=280303
> which is about to get masked tomorrow with kdelibs-3...
>

Those of us who run it wouldn't mind seeing a STABLEREQ if cardoe thinks 
it is ready...  :)  I've been thinking about taking the plunge anyway. 
A news item about the utf-8 issues might not hurt though as doing the 
upgrade right involves backups/etc.  The news item should be released 
BEFORE it goes stable.  That is, unless the upgrade process has become 
seamless now.

[gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Mark Bateman]

Ben de Groot <yngwin <at> gentoo.org> writes:

> 
> As announced 5 months ago[1], Gentoo's Qt team now officially
> deprecates usage of x11-libs/qt:3 and packages depending on this
> version of Qt. 
> 

> # Policy for remaining ebuilds depending on qt:3 #
> 
> * if Qt3 optional, remove this option
> * if Qt4 depending version stable, remove Qt3 depending versions
> * if Qt4 depending version in testing, mark stable, then remove older versions
> * if no Qt4 version in tree, get Qt4 version in testing by 2010-01-21
> and stable by 2010-02-21
> * if no Qt4 version exists, check for equivalent/replacement packages,
> and mask by 2010-02-21
> 
> Note: for packages that currently have no version marked stable, the
> references to stabling Qt4 versions obviously don't apply.
> 
> 1:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d851e05567d538b662f34de8dfdb7316.xml
> 
> Cheers,



QUCS is a qt3 only application. 
This is a fantastic electrical simulation package and is in active developement.

There is a svn branch for the qt4 port but it isn't there yet.
Removal of qt3 will break this app that is in the main tree

If the policy is to then remove this app (which would be a very big shame since
it will mean - based upon past experience - hard to get back in) could a
hard-mask live ebuild for the svn/nightly be made until the next qucs is released

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Samuli Suominen]

On 12/31/2009 03:38 PM, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 12/31/2009 08:24 AM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>> It's been done in,
>>
>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=292791
>>
> 
> That is for kdelibs-3.5 - not for qt-3.  However, it wouldn't shock me

True, it's linked to http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283429, to
which I've been opening new bugs about everyday... and I'm not part of
qt@ in anyway, btw ;-)

I really don't support anykind of USE="qt3" masking either before all
the bugs are opened there, can't take such shortcuts. IMHO. Specially
when it would break the tree, one second glance and I can see e.g.
stable gnucash for alpha needing aqbanking with USE qt3 enabled.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Maciej Mrozowski]

On Thursday 31 of December 2009 14:43:54 Mark Bateman wrote:
> Ben de Groot <yngwin <at> gentoo.org> writes:
> > As announced 5 months ago[1], Gentoo's Qt team now officially
> > deprecates usage of x11-libs/qt:3 and packages depending on this
> > version of Qt.
> > 
> > 
> > # Policy for remaining ebuilds depending on qt:3 #
> > 
> > * if Qt3 optional, remove this option
> > * if Qt4 depending version stable, remove Qt3 depending versions
> > * if Qt4 depending version in testing, mark stable, then remove older
> > versions * if no Qt4 version in tree, get Qt4 version in testing by
> > 2010-01-21 and stable by 2010-02-21
> > * if no Qt4 version exists, check for equivalent/replacement packages,
> > and mask by 2010-02-21
> > 
> > Note: for packages that currently have no version marked stable, the
> > references to stabling Qt4 versions obviously don't apply.
> 
> > 1:
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d851e05567d538b662f34de8
> dfdb7316.xml
> 
> > Cheers,
> 
> QUCS is a qt3 only application.
> This is a fantastic electrical simulation package and is in active
> developement.
> 
> There is a svn branch for the qt4 port but it isn't there yet.
> Removal of qt3 will break this app that is in the main tree
> 
> If the policy is to then remove this app (which would be a very big shame
> since it will mean - based upon past experience - hard to get back in)
> could a hard-mask live ebuild for the svn/nightly be made until the next
> qucs is released

It could be moved to kde-sunset overlay where legacy KDE3 stuff (like KDE 
3.5.10 itself) is being kept and maintained by the community.

-- 
regards
MM

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 31-12-2009 13:10, Maciej Mrozowski wrote:
> On Thursday 31 of December 2009 14:43:54 Mark Bateman wrote:
>> Ben de Groot <yngwin <at> gentoo.org> writes:
>>> As announced 5 months ago[1], Gentoo's Qt team now officially
>>> deprecates usage of x11-libs/qt:3 and packages depending on this
>>> version of Qt.
>>>
>>>
>>> # Policy for remaining ebuilds depending on qt:3 #
>>>
>>> * if Qt3 optional, remove this option
>>> * if Qt4 depending version stable, remove Qt3 depending versions
>>> * if Qt4 depending version in testing, mark stable, then remove older
>>> versions * if no Qt4 version in tree, get Qt4 version in testing by
>>> 2010-01-21 and stable by 2010-02-21
>>> * if no Qt4 version exists, check for equivalent/replacement packages,
>>> and mask by 2010-02-21
>>>
>>> Note: for packages that currently have no version marked stable, the
>>> references to stabling Qt4 versions obviously don't apply.
>>
>>> 1:
>> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d851e05567d538b662f34de8
>> dfdb7316.xml
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>> QUCS is a qt3 only application.
>> This is a fantastic electrical simulation package and is in active
>> developement.
>>
>> There is a svn branch for the qt4 port but it isn't there yet.
>> Removal of qt3 will break this app that is in the main tree
>>
>> If the policy is to then remove this app (which would be a very big shame
>> since it will mean - based upon past experience - hard to get back in)
>> could a hard-mask live ebuild for the svn/nightly be made until the next
>> qucs is released
> 
> It could be moved to kde-sunset overlay where legacy KDE3 stuff (like KDE 
> 3.5.10 itself) is being kept and maintained by the community.

We can also get an ebuild for the live version in the KDE overlay (if it
uses KDE) or the appropriate Qt overlay. Are you interested in
contributing an ebuild for it?


- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Ben de Groot]

2009/12/31 Richard Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>:
> 30 days isn't a long time.  How about filing bugs against anything that
> currently uses qt3 right away, so that maintainers have an extra three weeks
> to resolve these issues?  Granted, one would hope they've been paying
> attention.

We've already announced that 5 months ago and asked for any issues to
be brought to our attention. If things haven't improved by now, it is
doubtful they will with a few months extra time. Our current timeline
gives maintainers another seven weeks to resolve issues, before
x11-libs/qt:3 will be package.masked.

> Usually the approach in these situations is to have a big tracker bug for
> qt3 removal and a million blocker bugs against individual packages.

There is a tracker bug, I should have mentioned it in the original mail:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283429

Please file bugs blocking the tracker for any package you think is
important and doesn't have a Qt4 version or replacement yet. If there
is a Qt4 version, but not yet stable, then stable requests should be
filed, which also block the tracker. The Qt team will also go through
the tree and file bugs for all remaining packages within the next
couple of weeks.

> Plus, you might decide that one or two of the blockers really are
> critical, and decide to work with those maintainers more closely or escalate
> the issue.

Sure. As I said in the original mail: "We are dedicated to do anything
we reasonably can to make sure that Qt4 versions or equivalents of the
remaining Qt3 packages in the portage tree are available." I believe
we can work things out in the next seven weeks, and otherwise we could
reconsider the timeline. But we need short-term goals, otherwise it
will take forever to get things done.

Cheers,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
______________________________________________________

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Ben de Groot]

2009/12/31 Maciej Mrozowski <reavertm@gmail.com>:
> On Thursday 31 of December 2009 14:43:54 Mark Bateman wrote:
>> QUCS is a qt3 only application.
>> This is a fantastic electrical simulation package and is in active
>> developement.
>>
>> There is a svn branch for the qt4 port but it isn't there yet.
>> Removal of qt3 will break this app that is in the main tree
>>
>> If the policy is to then remove this app (which would be a very big shame
>> since it will mean - based upon past experience - hard to get back in)
>> could a hard-mask live ebuild for the svn/nightly be made until the next
>> qucs is released

Yes, a hardmasked live ebuild is a possibility. A snapshot ebuild
would be even better, as that could be in ~arch.

> It could be moved to kde-sunset overlay where legacy KDE3 stuff (like KDE
> 3.5.10 itself) is being kept and maintained by the community.

All packages depending on qt:3 should be moved to kde-sunset.

A bug should be filed for this package, blocking the qt3 removal tracker.

Cheers,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
______________________________________________________

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Qt3 deprecation and removal policy

[Ben de Groot]

2009/12/31 Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org>:
> I really don't support anykind of USE="qt3" masking either before all
> the bugs are opened there, can't take such shortcuts. IMHO. Specially
> when it would break the tree, one second glance and I can see e.g.
> stable gnucash for alpha needing aqbanking with USE qt3 enabled.

Okay, so maybe this needs to be delayed. But our basic policy stands:
wherever qt3 is an option, this option should now be removed.
Obviously, where it would break the stable tree we need to work out
solutions first. So maybe we should start doing a more selective
package.use.mask.

Also, I would like to see a list of packages where this would be a
problem. I just filed a new tracker for all packages with qt3 use
deps: 299127. Please everyone, file bugs for such packages and let
them block this tracker.

Thanks,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
______________________________________________________