From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7E93138334 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 18:20:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 298AEE0968; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 18:20:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97035E095A for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 18:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([212.159.46.162]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [213.165.67.115]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M5wTt-1iL1GR48XT-007WB0 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 20:20:29 +0200 From: Michael Everitt Subject: [gentoo-dev] Editing RDEPEND without a new revision (again) To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <40425a02-6e15-6757-d17f-6f509eccf21d@gentoo.org> <4fa10436-c795-8dd3-c932-75b0a56da503@veremit.xyz> <22a0ad52-f835-65ad-255a-4f2d146b2988@gentoo.org> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=gentoo@veremit.xyz; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <22a0ad52-f835-65ad-255a-4f2d146b2988@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Af3DMI5FGy8iqXDQpQrY5dk9DUEtapFux" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jUBUuTVxACb9bY+c7391k8NhmWmagLjMIxsgXL2CV64t5CNQRDt WkHFOhqOh+hnBp9UMbd/iGAK6d8txkPI2nBa6tq92ww5GW0lMYrPZJv99WxkaSit5EMr832 2IkrPe41exe0WHfxj0ynDH4X9QcdDcSaI7wiJG/O0AIq6BP+IRekxj0TH7fjdZ84171cBaL uzP/RAMv5ns3jXlnE8Jag== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YpuoHTjI1sY=:DaJt1Bh82AfwD+jXykv0BX /sydAsGueGtqDFhy4bGYPzC1+OyonuGTiZGLq5SuSC6nsV/UH9KtT8F85aK4sKM2MtzUBnRjO z9Byrzhu6U6nxMshN7B8qK4lmEJmj1mTcq508LqAJWNxPVYgFa04u+sgPpeg0fN6ze/EecuWZ /Hf5b6YK5IDCmbf9niFD0Oejg+HjsgEgcF6JuLDSjQFtO07UZU2593ILgc4Xf4GHexnTlzU1p b7Kn9JjDUrMMkYufSZvDRcDZW4ed44wpt63apNcpaQZGp+REqwJ3IkTQGZ3BwlTnQWtKwrIeX dABnA4DIFlnXjv9sQZL8/QVPEQiX3R03GqKTl3gDNJNfkhFZYaxdus8/gKKmhZkjOhsxckWt2 BuVduixSXhXy4MsvLaDf7Woszei0oIh1YQkZ0LSKOI1NXK3+jEuOnwXRMKhIxoKqpKn8Y4Vfn vPYJwVJsFxWRZKaHDeITv9bPjJBA00U9h5dDbq8WGzGYQSglwL8zQyOb2+nVEEbPUA6NSDfsO TCSOiUovsNw9270gVoE/I9X5kgRlTpKtflwQ+FShU550hFEsGM0SVrNZS02mlQIoQHsKIqYbF IxQpVrLPip8BftYU4xXxlrpeMGdaann94EfCRdXr32bVFme5/Gc1uQNcEhitvPn+19lmv5uRb 8+drRB3+Sf0Dguoep5Yh+CuVIC4R9vmwSAfRpbfplmyj26s0lbWVpQ7130zw+DIJI+kzXL4fF M3bqjcXMDXjE8y4x/bLBaD2CSO8LxA6aMd+Fygn3BXxWtiifBjSbrs6BkvrNykQSCoce+iRpU 5hikgh2cc43zSa6ycW+qVDPTc2G90WXWHOW8jLslj7EVf4UlE3b0GvOum85C5d3IX4NUuudb/ ZaL1Pchl2R9BoJ0V//KczEMmcy+wIC494oMuciS68= X-Archives-Salt: 03e806d3-b4b0-473b-9fa6-e83e55a45f7a X-Archives-Hash: 4b61dc794b9f9fc9c0b0c6ea66b55741 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Af3DMI5FGy8iqXDQpQrY5dk9DUEtapFux Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="rXsu91OXpcgl5T0xPveCAKNUH9GaKiXvz"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Everitt To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: Subject: [gentoo-dev] Editing RDEPEND without a new revision (again) References: <40425a02-6e15-6757-d17f-6f509eccf21d@gentoo.org> <4fa10436-c795-8dd3-c932-75b0a56da503@veremit.xyz> <22a0ad52-f835-65ad-255a-4f2d146b2988@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <22a0ad52-f835-65ad-255a-4f2d146b2988@gentoo.org> --rXsu91OXpcgl5T0xPveCAKNUH9GaKiXvz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 25/10/19 14:43, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 10/24/19 10:03 PM, Michael Everitt wrote: >> Forgive my lack of git-fu, but which commit did this? Can we name & sh= ame >> the author and committer publicly, and in front of QA, so that this ki= nd of >> violation is highlighted to all, and noted for future reference? >> > I left it out on purpose. This isn't a one-person problem, and my anger= > isn't only targeted at the last person who was unlucky enough to do it > right before I snapped and wrote the email. > > This comes up on the -dev list several times a year. We've fought about= > ecosystems adding dependencies to stable packages via eclass USE flags.= > We fight about the revision policy in the devmanual. We've been fightin= g > about dynamic dependencies in the package manager for 10+ years. The > portage team basically quit once over this. A few years later we fought= > about it again and finally turned them off, but the commit got reverted= > when users complained that developers were constantly breaking things. > That contributed to a fork of the package manager... > > Point is, it's not a new thing. And it's a huge waste of time for > everyone involved. It's also simple to avoid. Just make a new revision > when you change something. You shouldn't be changing stable ebuilds > *anyway*, but if you're already going to violate that policy, it doesn'= t > do any more harm to move it to -r1 in the process. > I think the policy on this in the devmanual/etc is a little too vague. My= impression is that changes to an ebuild which make a material difference = to the files installed, should definitely be rev-bumped, but certain other changes, and bug fixes, don't need this as they result in missing functionality being rectified/restored. Personally, because I have yet to see any revbumps beyond about -r5 I don= 't think we would have a problem in reality if everyone bumped the revision *regardless* on *any* change, and we dealt with the consequences *that* way. When/If we get to -r99 on a package perhaps we can revisit this topi= c, and why so many updates are necessary to a "stable release" (!). I sense that the problem boils down to a lack of 'warm bodies' and people= making poor decisions or lazy decisions because of a need to move somethi= ng forward, without properly considering the wider implications of their 'shortcuts'. This isn't a problem likely to be solved soon, however, and becomes a meta-problem of another sort. However, I'm noting a number of quite angry posts arriving on the public lists, because we have Hard Problems that are creating issues for those attempting to contribute. I think that if you find you're reaching this threshold, perhaps its time for you to take a break, get some air, and consider whether you have the resources to fix the underlying problem, or= whether you can tolerate the status quo. Nothing is going to change fast,= and will likely require a lot of compromises on the way. That said, there= is no harm in trying new things, and accepting that some ideas may have t= o be reversed. But let's not continue to throw too many daggers across the lists, as it doesn't do anybody any favours, beyond venting frustrations.= --rXsu91OXpcgl5T0xPveCAKNUH9GaKiXvz-- --Af3DMI5FGy8iqXDQpQrY5dk9DUEtapFux Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJdszzqAAoJEEwwM0+TwiNxnKUP/jMCNMqMsbUN18fZUAUOuzj9 owzxfKX4ZZzgKDaybaT7TOQjvE8KEmPTM/IuFOavhqKBeE09NOOfQRVJ3NpDBZVQ 7xF8a7heW2hU9RjOX1nmFukTQPGGz/s/QXVtaXLTf+bD8Yt4djjRp9/AOS8wcIon 4cYBATpPCoY2FvGAuDWXmujw9KWBQ+8dDPXg8ddVgCx/GhWGN6KmvE7nWTyIcpwZ 1yuT/4TjmIc5egU41n92zdvO0LPPM0kL5TT0VYlrPqwbuP/hSwPaXrvsfr9WM/fA +U/TsDzK56cey4AY8Ygkp6ugLltfinAisA5tV+rfsyF/cZsUGGnXAnBYCwr+fNtw 5YFkmm7ncspOTR5yLd2/LrLiJ3dxY6kmxORnsD+8RwRi7mCLDU7G8JTxRuOHjcMn kfdYt+a0Pbm1KGtBDBwnUhILZREDYj7Q0eyKcNfj6Bj3DB9Uciez7swWYEIhYy+0 0ci0llWqZkjV75jL4zyr9Doh7PA6juOqvsvHHCJu4cIFIFvUFdIqsqObhX7hCGWt U8dF8afJtfuv2FX47JRVFe0ZhH1mZEkG+srHc0B4XKoLo0tr3zx8C/hCx1wngYar fLK6pWi7zU37FBAzgK5m6fHGI+tKc/B/KdPT9nfKUICfKRZEiAO1z70KOZlHLmUA 9c1z4OIb6qxUzhnWX8E+ =841T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Af3DMI5FGy8iqXDQpQrY5dk9DUEtapFux--