[gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Sven Köhler]

hi,

gentoo usually does the following if i execute halt or reboot:

sending all processes the TERM signal
sending all processes the KILL signal
stopping xdm ...
stopping alsasound ...
etc....

in may eyes, this has to be the other way round:
first shutdown all deamons properly with the init.d-script, and than 
send the remaining processes the TERM and KILL signals.


why does gentoo handle things the way it does? redhat etc. do it the 
other way i described. using the init.d-script sounds more resonable to me.

Thx
   Sven


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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[William Hubbs]

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Hi all,

On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 01:40:08PM +0200, Sven K?hler wrote:
> hi,
> 
> gentoo usually does the following if i execute halt or reboot:
> 
> sending all processes the TERM signal
> sending all processes the KILL signal
> stopping xdm ...
> stopping alsasound ...
> etc....
> 
> in may eyes, this has to be the other way round:
> first shutdown all deamons properly with the init.d-script, and than 
> send the remaining processes the TERM and KILL signals.
> 
> 
> why does gentoo handle things the way it does? redhat etc. do it the 
> other way i described. using the init.d-script sounds more resonable to me.

I just confirmed this.  When you do a shutdown or a reboot or halt, the processes are killed by the kill and term signals before the services are actually stopped with the /etc/init.d/* scripts.

Is there a reason for this or should it be the other way around?

William
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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[John Nilsson]

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While on the topic:
	Is it resonable to patch gdm so that /etc/init.d/xdm is zapped after
gdm is killed by selecting reboot/shutdown from the login screen?
It just annoys me that the script errors while shutting down.

-John

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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Olivier Crête]

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On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 07:10, John Nilsson wrote:
> While on the topic:
> 	Is it resonable to patch gdm so that /etc/init.d/xdm is zapped after
> gdm is killed by selecting reboot/shutdown from the login screen?
> It just annoys me that the script errors while shutting down.


This is imho a misfeature of the current initscripts system. The
started-ness of an application is only checked against a file and not
against the current real status. We should probably add a possible
"status()" function to them (that would default to true) that would
check if the service is still running in a custom way.. And zap it if it
isnt... The problem there is with dependencies, should they be stopped
if the service died? But the current system is clearly broken..

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[John Nilsson]

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I remember a time when gentoo (enoch?) used djb's daemontools to manages
services. Why was this changed?

-John

On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 08:15, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 07:10, John Nilsson wrote:
> > While on the topic:
> > 	Is it resonable to patch gdm so that /etc/init.d/xdm is zapped after
> > gdm is killed by selecting reboot/shutdown from the login screen?
> > It just annoys me that the script errors while shutting down.
> 
> 
> This is imho a misfeature of the current initscripts system. The
> started-ness of an application is only checked against a file and not
> against the current real status. We should probably add a possible
> "status()" function to them (that would default to true) that would
> check if the service is still running in a custom way.. And zap it if it
> isnt... The problem there is with dependencies, should they be stopped
> if the service died? But the current system is clearly broken..

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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Grant Goodyear]

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John Nilsson wrote: [Mon May 03 2004, 02:46:36AM EDT]
> I remember a time when gentoo (enoch?) used djb's daemontools to manages
> services. Why was this changed?

It was changed both because not enough people were interested in it to
keep writing custom svc scripts for non-svc-aware packages and because
DJBs licensing is a pain.  

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Monday 03 May 2004 08:15, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 07:10, John Nilsson wrote:
> > While on the topic:
> > 	Is it resonable to patch gdm so that /etc/init.d/xdm is zapped
> > after gdm is killed by selecting reboot/shutdown from the login
> > screen? It just annoys me that the script errors while shutting
> > down.
>
> This is imho a misfeature of the current initscripts system. The
> started-ness of an application is only checked against a file and not
> against the current real status. We should probably add a possible
> "status()" function to them (that would default to true) that would
> check if the service is still running in a custom way.. And zap it if
> it isnt... The problem there is with dependencies, should they be
> stopped if the service died? But the current system is clearly
> broken..

I agree, I think we should enhance the init scripts with another function 
that can check the status of a daemon (in some way) and as such also 
does not complain when a died daemon needs to be started.

Paul

- -- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Allen D Parker]

We can actually probably do this in bash fairly simply (although unless
each service is started in sequence or in a seperate shellspace, it might
be a problem) parallel start + bash variables = nastiness.

for each initscript SVCNAME="apache2"
then in the actual runscript, something like this would do just fine
(imho) for 99% of what would need to be supported:

SVCHOME=`whereis ${SVCNAME} | cut -d " " -f 2`
if ${SVCNAME} != `ps aux | grep ${SVCHOME}`; then
/etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} zap &&
/etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} start
else
SVC_STATUS="alive"
fi

Allen Parker
(temporarily off my windows box :( i borked my raid firmware last night)

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Paul de Vrieze wrote:

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> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Monday 03 May 2004 08:15, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 07:10, John Nilsson wrote:
> > > While on the topic:
> > > 	Is it resonable to patch gdm so that /etc/init.d/xdm is zapped
> > > after gdm is killed by selecting reboot/shutdown from the login
> > > screen? It just annoys me that the script errors while shutting
> > > down.
> >
> > This is imho a misfeature of the current initscripts system. The
> > started-ness of an application is only checked against a file and not
> > against the current real status. We should probably add a possible
> > "status()" function to them (that would default to true) that would
> > check if the service is still running in a custom way.. And zap it if
> > it isnt... The problem there is with dependencies, should they be
> > stopped if the service died? But the current system is clearly
> > broken..
>
> I agree, I think we should enhance the init scripts with another function
> that can check the status of a daemon (in some way) and as such also
> does not complain when a died daemon needs to be started.
>
> Paul
>
> - --
> Paul de Vrieze
> Gentoo Developer
> Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
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> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Monday 03 May 2004 10:50, Allen D Parker wrote:
> We can actually probably do this in bash fairly simply (although
> unless each service is started in sequence or in a seperate
> shellspace, it might be a problem) parallel start + bash variables =
> nastiness.
>
> for each initscript SVCNAME="apache2"
> then in the actual runscript, something like this would do just fine
> (imho) for 99% of what would need to be supported:
>
> SVCHOME=`whereis ${SVCNAME} | cut -d " " -f 2`
> if ${SVCNAME} != `ps aux | grep ${SVCHOME}`; then
> /etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} zap &&
> /etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} start
> else
> SVC_STATUS="alive"
> fi

I was more thinking of providing an extra function (say "status()") that 
would have a positive result if the service is actually running and a 
negative result if it is not. The handler script/program should then be 
able to handle this function.

Paul

- -- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 11:05, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Monday 03 May 2004 10:50, Allen D Parker wrote:
> > We can actually probably do this in bash fairly simply (although
> > unless each service is started in sequence or in a seperate
> > shellspace, it might be a problem) parallel start + bash variables =
> > nastiness.
> >
> > for each initscript SVCNAME="apache2"
> > then in the actual runscript, something like this would do just fine
> > (imho) for 99% of what would need to be supported:
> >
> > SVCHOME=`whereis ${SVCNAME} | cut -d " " -f 2`
> > if ${SVCNAME} != `ps aux | grep ${SVCHOME}`; then
> > /etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} zap &&
> > /etc/init.d/${SVCNAME} start
> > else
> > SVC_STATUS="alive"
> > fi
> 
> I was more thinking of providing an extra function (say "status()") that 
> would have a positive result if the service is actually running and a 
> negative result if it is not. The handler script/program should then be 
> able to handle this function.
> 

There is one that can be overridden.  Also have a look at
/lib/rcscripts/sh/rc-daemon.sh - yeah, its crude, its very alpha (did
it in a night some months back), but it was supposed to be generic
daemon handling, with checking of pid, etc.


-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange gentoo shutdown sequence

[splite-gentoo]

On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 12:32:23PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 01:40:08PM +0200, Sven K?hler wrote:
> > hi,
> > 
> > gentoo usually does the following if i execute halt or reboot:
> > 
> > sending all processes the TERM signal
> > sending all processes the KILL signal
> > stopping xdm ...
> > stopping alsasound ...
> > etc....
> > 
> > in may eyes, this has to be the other way round:
> > first shutdown all deamons properly with the init.d-script, and than 
> > send the remaining processes the TERM and KILL signals.
> > 
> > 
> > why does gentoo handle things the way it does? redhat etc. do it the 
> > other way i described. using the init.d-script sounds more resonable to me.
> 
> I just confirmed this.  When you do a shutdown or a reboot or halt, the processes are killed by the kill and term signals before the services are actually stopped with the /etc/init.d/* scripts.
> 
> Is there a reason for this or should it be the other way around?

init(8) itself sends the TERM and KILL signals when changing runlevels, and
there's no way around that, save patching init.

It's not a real problem because init only signals processes still in init's
process group, and there usually aren't any.  (Run "ps -eo pid,pgrp,cmd" to
see if any are, if you're curious.)

"man init" for more info.

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