From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8FA7138350 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:52:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BD3CE0EE0; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:52:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E6D2E0EDD for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiot (c142-245.icpnet.pl [85.221.142.245]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED1A734E000; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] unsanctioned python 2.7 crusade From: =?UTF-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_G=C3=B3rny?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 07:52:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <15005ba1-1a1b-5d71-dbe3-7834b79ee733@gentoo.org> References: <15005ba1-1a1b-5d71-dbe3-7834b79ee733@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-xKg69UIy/CGAU3ZkITPT" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Archives-Salt: fc072aa7-160d-4b1f-9a65-2bf6f41fa2ad X-Archives-Hash: 9dbafd5f33f979e0fdf19d121ab053f9 --=-xKg69UIy/CGAU3ZkITPT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2020-01-12 at 17:07 -0500, Joshua Kinard wrote: > I'm late to the party as usual. Seems upstream plans a final 2.7.18 > security update in April of 2020, then they will consider the 2.7 branch > EOL. They say most of these updates were done in 2019, and so are still > technically sticking to their mantra of no more updates after 01/01/2020. >=20 > PEP 373 covers this: > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/#release-schedule >=20 > """ > Planned future release dates: >=20 > 2.7.18 code freeze January, 2020 > 2.7.18 release candidate early April, 2020 > 2.7.18 mid-April, 2020 > """ >=20 > IMHO, I think we should retain 2.7.x compatibility for 1 year AFTER the > release of 2.7.18. This provides some time for people to transition syst= ems > off of 2.7-dependent packages. >=20 > It might be worthwhile to treat the removal of Python-2.7 from the tree i= n > the same manner as an EAPI deprecation and removal, given how ingrained i= t > is due to its longevity. That will minimize the whiplash-effect of emerg= e > complaining about slot conflicts and dependency conflicts. Like I just r= an > into w/ setuptools-45.0.0.0's release. Joshua, I understand that you don't do much Python ebuild work, or probably Python development in general. I understand that you may feel like you need more time with Python 2. But before sending such mails, please try to put yourself in our skin. Imagine I've spend a few hours yesterday merely trying to find a reasonable subset of OpenStack packages that can have Python 2 removed (OpenStack has done Python 3 releases for quite a while already).=20 Believe me, it's not interesting satisfactory work. It's a struggle against neverending conflicts with revdeps, stale stable packages, more indirect revdeps... All that to move a few dozen packages forward and have less pain for end users in the end. Now imagine someone who doesn't really know much about maintaining Python in Gentoo and problems related to Python 2 sunrising, grabs one site about Python releases and tells me what to do without knowing the wider context. Wouldn't you feel angry? Demotivated? Depressed even? I mean, forgive my expression but we're deep in shit. As you've noticed yourself, emerge spews few pages of 'I can't upgrade setuptools' because of humongous number of packages that still need Python 2-capable version. Sure, we could put some effort into making it still work with Python 2, then start collecting more and more patches to various packages just to keep things working. But then, 3-6-12 months from now it will no longer be feasible, the cesspool will overflow and we'll be even deeper in shit that we're today. If people started removing Python 2 from Gentoo years ago, like upstream suggested, today things would be much better. But we waited till last minute. And now you're telling us to wait more because there will be a new release of the *interpreter*? --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --=-xKg69UIy/CGAU3ZkITPT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAABCgB9FiEEx2qEUJQJjSjMiybFY5ra4jKeJA4FAl4cE5JfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEM3 NkE4NDUwOTQwOThEMjhDQzhCMjZDNTYzOUFEQUUyMzI5RTI0MEUACgkQY5ra4jKe JA7wogf/WP1kbGrLyhkbUFWRQPV+IZtyq5KpWUK7sAVMO3iYYusgjM9RbQXAR89E 7Su8AOTlRkzSnRcYk9bTHi5/fG61cbnDBlqUWQa6zO1AakwoLwaD00GPPyBBMH2R OSwUgMT4qM2eX0f5v8no6FM1DQ7BBV/DjHiHJHQ0OCEz7ERTXBqqTAiI+ByuksAB y/wXiM+8w8v7Day2P14AP2syiZWnv1rgJnuWQ0T3qH3RoxorSiY9mcJLHBtG/Soq SW3dSlMKJ7hdESBcMB0PFt/bzAu6K/5wgSBlvXJE/gPQU3sIQiIiPaYfnOnVFgBL wc1aFaIM415keiU0zXBJVDLBHWkQgA== =oKLy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-xKg69UIy/CGAU3ZkITPT--