[gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Daniel Robbins]

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Hi All,

We have updated the Portage project page:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/

It now includes an updated timeline, a Portage roadmap/TODO (there are a
few broken links in here, known issue) and a Portage-ng specification
document which is viewable here:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/portage-ng/systemspec.xml

Thanks to nerdboy for pointing me in the right direction about getting
the portage-ng document together, as well as feedback from the
gentoo-portage-dev mailing list, Thanks to carpaski for his work on
getting the Portage roadmap/TODO online, and thanks to pvdabeel for his
work on the exploratory portage-ng prototype that should be online soon.

Regards,

Daniel



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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> We have updated the Portage project page:
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/
> 
> It now includes an updated timeline, a Portage roadmap/TODO (there are a
> few broken links in here, known issue) and a Portage-ng specification
> document which is viewable here:
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/portage-ng/systemspec.xml
> 
> Thanks to nerdboy for pointing me in the right direction about getting
> the portage-ng document together, as well as feedback from the
> gentoo-portage-dev mailing list, Thanks to carpaski for his work on
> getting the Portage roadmap/TODO online, and thanks to pvdabeel for his
> work on the exploratory portage-ng prototype that should be online soon.

If you're getting rid of the virtuals file and calculating on-demand,
why not the world file too?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Luke-Jr]

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On Wednesday 03 December 2003 12:47 am, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> If you're getting rid of the virtuals file and calculating on-demand,
> why not the world file too?
Maybe because the world file cannot truly be recreated?
- -- 
Luke-Jr
Developer, Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 20:25, Luke-Jr wrote:
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> On Wednesday 03 December 2003 12:47 am, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > If you're getting rid of the virtuals file and calculating on-demand,
> > why not the world file too?
> Maybe because the world file cannot truly be recreated?

Yeah that's true in the current system afaik..but after all, this is
"ng."

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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Jeremy Maitin-Shepard]

Donnie Berkholz <spyderous@gentoo.org> writes:

> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 20:25, Luke-Jr wrote:
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>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> On Wednesday 03 December 2003 12:47 am, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> > If you're getting rid of the virtuals file and calculating on-demand,
>> > why not the world file too?
>> Maybe because the world file cannot truly be recreated?

> Yeah that's true in the current system afaik..but after all, this is
> "ng."

The information contained in the world file is not duplicated; if you
want to be able to regenerate it, it would have to be backed up
somewhere, which isn't very useful.  (Perhaps it should be called
something like ``automatically-update'' instead of ``world,'' though.)

-- 
Jeremy Maitin-Shepard

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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Andrew Cowie]

On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 11:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/
> [which includes]

"* Stop using mtimes for packages. Have portage look up all files in the
vardb to ensure that a file isn't duplicated and unmerge it if not.
Potentially slow... Need some way to speed it up... hash of filenames?"

One piece of work that has focused on this is a tool called RadMind, out
of the University of Michigan; http://www.radmind.org/ .

It uses a concept of MD5 sums on system files to detect system changes;
sets of such changes can be used in deployment (both configuration and
binary) and can also be used to detect unwanted changes. It's fairly
impressive, because, unlike cfengine or tripwire, system validity still
after its used to deploy a configuration change.

You might want to have a read of a paper presented at LISA a few weeks
back:

http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/radmind/files/LISA-radmind.pdf

AfC
Sydney

-- 
Andrew Frederick Cowie
Operational Dynamics Consulting Pty Ltd

Australia: +61 2 9977 6866

http://www.operationaldynamics.com/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Daniel Robbins]

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On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 22:10, Andrew Cowie wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 11:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/
> > [which includes]
> 
> "* Stop using mtimes for packages. Have portage look up all files in the
> vardb to ensure that a file isn't duplicated and unmerge it if not.
> Potentially slow... Need some way to speed it up... hash of filenames?"
> 
> One piece of work that has focused on this is a tool called RadMind, out
> of the University of Michigan; http://www.radmind.org/ .

This is fascinating stuff. I'll be sure to add radmind concepts to the
Portage-ng architecture.

Regards,

Daniel

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[gentoo-dev] Re: initial portage-ng doc online

[Michael Kunze]

Daniel Robbins wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/portage-ng/systemspec.xml

Hi,
i'd like to see a functionality which determines if a certain package -
that was once installed because of a dep - is no longer needed.

a simple file would do the trick:

# pkg_name	is_used_by
package_1	x, y, z

if you unmerge package z it gets removed, if all dependencies are gone
package_1 (which would be a lib or so) can be rmeoved too.

furthermore it gives the user the ability to check why a certain package
(which he hasn't explicit emerged) is on the system.

-- 
Michael Kunze


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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Peter Ruskin]

On Wednesday 03 Dec 2003 00:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> ...work on the exploratory portage-ng prototype that should be online

I must have missed it - would someone please explain what the "ng" 
stands for?

Peter
-- 
======================================================================
Gentoo Linux:	Portage 2.0.49-r18 (default-x86-1.4, gcc-3.2.3, 
glibc-2.3.2-r3, 2.6.0-test11-gentoo-r1-win4lin)	i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:07:22 +0000 Peter Ruskin
<Peter.Ruskin@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
| On Wednesday 03 Dec 2003 00:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
| > ...work on the exploratory portage-ng prototype that should be
| > online
| 
| I must have missed it - would someone please explain what the "ng" 
| stands for?

Next Generation

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail:    ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web:     http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Peter Ruskin]

On Wednesday 03 Dec 2003 17:14, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:07:22 +0000 Peter Ruskin
>
> <Peter.Ruskin@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> | On Wednesday 03 Dec 2003 00:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> | > ...work on the exploratory portage-ng prototype that should be
> | > online
> |
> | I must have missed it - would someone please explain what the "ng"
> | stands for?
>
> Next Generation

Thanks
-- 
======================================================================
Gentoo Linux:	Portage 2.0.49-r18 (default-x86-1.4, gcc-3.2.3, 
glibc-2.3.2-r3, 2.6.0-test11-gentoo-r1-win4lin)	i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 
3200+
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Re: [gentoo-dev] initial portage-ng doc online

[Steven Elling]

On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 18:27, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> We have updated the Portage project page:
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/
> 
> It now includes an updated timeline, a Portage roadmap/TODO (there are a
> few broken links in here, known issue) and a Portage-ng specification
> document which is viewable here:

In section 3 (Provide a coherent model for (meta)data representation and
storage), how about a single API for accessing portage data that is both
efficient and well-designed with the ability to change the back-end used
to store the data.

i.e. Allow the user/administrator to setup a database (MySQL,
PostgreSQL, Oracle, dbm, etc.) either locally or remotely and use it to
store portage data.  Kinda like emergesql but with the ability to store
information about what packages are installed on which systems.

There are other things that could be done to with this model.  How about
using different classes of settings for the Portage system (make.conf). 
Have a class for workstations, servers, firewalls, x86, ppc, Pentium,
Athlon, etc. and then place each Gentoo Linux system in one or more of
these classes.


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