[gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Kurt Lieber]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1950 bytes --]

As many of you have noticed, the forums have been having significant
performance problems lately.  Without going into the gory details, most of
these issues have to do with the inefficient way phpBB 2.0.x interacts with
the database.

Right now, the apache part of the forums are hosted on OSU's cluster of
dual xeon boxes and the database part is hosted by a dual xeon w/ 4GB of
RAM, so there is ample hardware behind us.  Adding more hardware is not
likely to be a tenable solution.  

We have a couple of options we're considering, none of which are ideal.
One option is to delete older posts and/or move them to an "archive"
section which would be unsearchable or really hard to search (which is,
imo, effectively deleting them because nobody is going to sift through all
that)

Another option is to migrate to an alternate forums package.  Specifically,
vBulletin, which has proven to be quite scalable and effective with larger
sites.  The main drawback to this is the fact that it is a commercial
software package, which tends to raise the ire of some of the more zealous
GNU folks out there.

So, my question to you is, how would you feel if we were to do this?
Horribly offended?  Saddened because there isn't a GPL'd program to meet
our needs, but pragmatic about the need to do *something*?  Or C, none of
the above?

Basically, the choice comes down to one of two things:

1) Lose some older posts and stay on a GPL-compatible package
2) Move to a commercial solution and keep all the posts.

Note that vBulletin *is* open source in that you have access to the source
code and can modify it.  It's just not Free.

Finally, to keep this process somewhat manageably, I ask that you make your
responses on the forums.  I've also set up a poll there so we can vote on
what should be done.  I will likely limit my responses to that discussion.

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=554174

--kurt

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Sven Blumenstein]

Kurt Lieber wrote:
> 2) Move to a commercial solution and keep all the posts.

Uh... wouldnt this violate the Gentoo Linux Social Contract...?


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Jon Portnoy]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 03:58:02AM +0200, Sven Blumenstein wrote:
> 
> 
> Kurt Lieber wrote:
> >2) Move to a commercial solution and keep all the posts.
> 
> Uh... wouldnt this violate the Gentoo Linux Social Contract...?
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Strictly speaking, the social contract refers to the distribution - that 
is to say, what users have to actually install.

Of course, what you feel is ethical is up to you.

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Paul de Vrieze]

[-- Attachment #1: signed data --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 666 bytes --]

On Sunday 28 September 2003 03:58, Sven Blumenstein wrote:
> Kurt Lieber wrote:
> > 2) Move to a commercial solution and keep all the posts.
>
> Uh... wouldnt this violate the Gentoo Linux Social Contract...?
>

What is depend. certainly ultradns is proprietary. but we do depend havilly on 
it (more than on the forums). But as the data format is public, and access 
does NOT depend on private software I don't see the problem. If the package 
has a problem, we convert back into whatever we like. We would use the 
software, not depend on it.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

RE: [gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Bjorn Sodergren]

Open Source/GPL , free meaning no $$ needed, or gotta-pay for it, it doesn't
matter as long as the tool you're using is the right tool for the job.

If you insist on using the wrong tools ONLY because you think it is
un-ethical to use non-free software, you should reconsider your priorities.

After all, if you had to rent a specific tool (i.e. ball-joint splitter) to
work on your car, or use what common tools (i.e. a hammer) you have laying
around your house, what would you do ?



> Another option is to migrate to an alternate forums package.  
> Specifically, vBulletin, which has proven to be quite 
> scalable and effective with larger sites.  The main drawback 
> to this is the fact that it is a commercial software package, 
> which tends to raise the ire of some of the more zealous GNU 
> folks out there.
> 
> So, my question to you is, how would you feel if we were to 
> do this? Horribly offended?  Saddened because there isn't a 
> GPL'd program to meet our needs, but pragmatic about the need 
> to do *something*?  Or C, none of the above?
> 
> Basically, the choice comes down to one of two things:
> 
> 1) Lose some older posts and stay on a GPL-compatible package
> 2) Move to a commercial solution and keep all the posts.
> 
> Note that vBulletin *is* open source in that you have access 
> to the source code and can modify it.  It's just not Free.
> 
> Finally, to keep this process somewhat manageably, I ask that 
> you make your responses on the forums.  I've also set up a 
> poll there so we can vote on what should be done.  I will 
> likely limit my responses to that discussion.
> 
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=554174

--kurt


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Jon Portnoy]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 03:00:24PM -0500, Bjorn Sodergren wrote:
> Open Source/GPL , free meaning no $$ needed, or gotta-pay for it, it doesn't
> matter as long as the tool you're using is the right tool for the job.
> 
> If you insist on using the wrong tools ONLY because you think it is
> un-ethical to use non-free software, you should reconsider your priorities.
> 

Why? If my priority is freedom rather than convienence, you're saying 
I'm wrong?

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Kurt Lieber wrote:
> Without going into the gory details, most of these issues have to do
> with the inefficient way phpBB 2.0.x interacts with the database.

  I don't know phpBB (or any other PHP forum solution), but are you sure
  that the way it interacts with the database cannot be improved?

  Also, have you considered upgrading to MySQL 4.0.X? Maybe MySQL's new
  query cache can help improve the forum's performance.

  Using a PHP bytecode cache (like APC 2.0, for instance) might also give
  a nice improvement.

  Greetings,
Sebastian

-- 
Sebastian Bergmann
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/                   http://phpOpenTracker.de/

Das Buch zu PHP 5: http://professionelle-softwareentwicklung-mit-php5.de/


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Mike Frysinger]

[-- Attachment #1: signed data --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 241 bytes --]

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 07:30, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
>   Using a PHP bytecode cache (like APC 2.0, for instance) might also give
>   a nice improvement.

why not use whats in portage ?
turck-mmcache (php) and memcache (mysql)
-mike

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 827 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Stuart Herbert]

[-- Attachment #1: signed data --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1026 bytes --]

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 12:43 pm, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 September 2003 07:30, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> >   Using a PHP bytecode cache (like APC 2.0, for instance) might also give
> >   a nice improvement.
>
> why not use whats in portage ?
> turck-mmcache (php) and memcache (mysql)
> -mike

Memcache is just a key/value pair server.  You have to modify the software to 
explicitly take advantage of it.

Either turck-mmcache or phpAccelerator will speed up the PHP, but neither will 
help with the SQL issues.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Beta packages for download            http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/
Come and meet me in March 2004                 http://www.phparch.com/cruise/

GnuGP key id# F9AFC57C available from http://pgp.mit.edu
Key fingerprint = 31FB 50D4 1F88 E227 F319  C549 0C2F 80BA F9AF C57C
--

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> why not use whats in portage ?
> turck-mmcache (php) and memcache (mysql)

  As Stuart already pointed out, memcached will not help you
  out-of-the-box, while the other approaches (MySQL Query Cache, PHP
  Bytecode Cache) will.

  I have never tested Turck MMCache, but I know the developer of APC and
  I know that APC was stress-tested by Rasmus (and others) and is ready
  for production.

  Installation of APC is as simple as

    $ pear install apc

  (and adding a line to the php.ini) by the way.

-- 
Sebastian Bergmann
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/                   http://phpOpenTracker.de/

Das Buch zu PHP 5: http://professionelle-softwareentwicklung-mit-php5.de/


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Stuart Herbert]

[-- Attachment #1: signed data --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1002 bytes --]

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 1:48 pm, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
>   I have never tested Turck MMCache, but I know the developer of APC and
>   I know that APC was stress-tested by Rasmus (and others) and is ready
>   for production.

Has APC been updated recently?  Work on it seemed to stop for what felt like 
two years or so.

>   Installation of APC is as simple as
>
>     $ pear install apc
>
>   (and adding a line to the php.ini) by the way.

I'll nudge coredumb and ask him to add an ebuild for this.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Beta packages for download            http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/
Come and meet me in March 2004                 http://www.phparch.com/cruise/

GnuGP key id# F9AFC57C available from http://pgp.mit.edu
Key fingerprint = 31FB 50D4 1F88 E227 F319  C549 0C2F 80BA F9AF C57C
--

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Re: Migrating to a commercial PHP-based forums package for forums.gentoo.org

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Has APC been updated recently?

  Yes [1].

  AFAIK Rasmus is either planning to or has already started deploying it
  at Yahoo.

> I'll nudge coredumb and ask him to add an ebuild for this.

  Yep, Tal has nothing better to do anyhow ;-)

  --
  [1] pecl.php.net/package/APC

-- 
Sebastian Bergmann
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/                   http://phpOpenTracker.de/

Das Buch zu PHP 5: http://professionelle-softwareentwicklung-mit-php5.de/


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list