[gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

Hello all,

   I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
conf.d. For example, DISPLAYMANAGER and KEYMAP. DISPLAYMANAGER could
be put into conf.d/xdm. Then, this variable would not exist with a
non-X environment, and configuration could be more modularized.

Forrest Voight

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Re: [gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Forrest Voight wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
>    I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
> conf.d. For example, DISPLAYMANAGER and KEYMAP. DISPLAYMANAGER could
> be put into conf.d/xdm. Then, this variable would not exist with a
> non-X environment, and configuration could be more modularized.

DISPLAYMANAGER should stay in rc.conf is because XSESSION is in rc.conf,
and it doesn't make sense to split them up. XSESSION is unrelated to any
service, so there's not really a better place for it.

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 11:38 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Forrest Voight wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > 
> >    I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
> > conf.d. For example, DISPLAYMANAGER and KEYMAP. DISPLAYMANAGER could
> > be put into conf.d/xdm. Then, this variable would not exist with a
> > non-X environment, and configuration could be more modularized.
> 
> DISPLAYMANAGER should stay in rc.conf is because XSESSION is in rc.conf,
> and it doesn't make sense to split them up. XSESSION is unrelated to any
> service, so there's not really a better place for it.

Isn't XSESSION *only* used by display managers?  I know for a fact that
it isn't used by "startx" or anything.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 11:38 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> Forrest Voight wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>>    I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
>>> conf.d. For example, DISPLAYMANAGER and KEYMAP. DISPLAYMANAGER could
>>> be put into conf.d/xdm. Then, this variable would not exist with a
>>> non-X environment, and configuration could be more modularized.
>> DISPLAYMANAGER should stay in rc.conf is because XSESSION is in rc.conf,
>> and it doesn't make sense to split them up. XSESSION is unrelated to any
>> service, so there's not really a better place for it.
> 
> Isn't XSESSION *only* used by display managers?  I know for a fact that
> it isn't used by "startx" or anything.

Do you now? It's used by my startx.

Take a look at /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc:

# First try ~/.xinitrc
if [ -f "$HOME/.xinitrc" ]; then
    XINITRC="$HOME/.xinitrc"
    exec /bin/sh "$HOME/.xinitrc"
# If not present, try the system default
elif [ -n "`/etc/X11/chooser.sh`" ]; then
    exec "`/etc/X11/chooser.sh`"

in chooser.sh:

# If $XSESSION is "", source first /etc/conf.d/basic, and then /etc/rc.conf
if [ -z "${XSESSION}" ]
then
    [ -f /etc/conf.d/basic ] && source /etc/conf.d/basic
    [ -f /etc/rc.conf ] && source /etc/rc.conf
fi

# Find a match for $XSESSION in /etc/X11/Sessions
GENTOO_SESSION=""
for x in /etc/X11/Sessions/*
do
    if [ "`echo ${x##*/} | awk '{ print toupper($1) }'`" \
        = "`echo ${XSESSION} | awk '{ print toupper($1) }'`" ]
    then
        GENTOO_SESSION=${x}
        break
    fi
done


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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

I was using an old gentoo system. Forget about KEYMAP.
But, what about UNICODE? That is related to KEYMAP and consolefont.
Shouldn't EDITOR and XSESSION be in a user-specific place?

Forrest

On 2/12/06, Donnie Berkholz <spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 11:38 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> >> Forrest Voight wrote:
> >>> Hello all,
> >>>
> >>>    I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
> >>> conf.d. For example, DISPLAYMANAGER and KEYMAP. DISPLAYMANAGER could
> >>> be put into conf.d/xdm. Then, this variable would not exist with a
> >>> non-X environment, and configuration could be more modularized.
> >> DISPLAYMANAGER should stay in rc.conf is because XSESSION is in rc.conf,
> >> and it doesn't make sense to split them up. XSESSION is unrelated to any
> >> service, so there's not really a better place for it.
> >
> > Isn't XSESSION *only* used by display managers?  I know for a fact that
> > it isn't used by "startx" or anything.
>
> Do you now? It's used by my startx.
>
> Take a look at /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc:
>
> # First try ~/.xinitrc
> if [ -f "$HOME/.xinitrc" ]; then
>     XINITRC="$HOME/.xinitrc"
>     exec /bin/sh "$HOME/.xinitrc"
> # If not present, try the system default
> elif [ -n "`/etc/X11/chooser.sh`" ]; then
>     exec "`/etc/X11/chooser.sh`"
>
> in chooser.sh:
>
> # If $XSESSION is "", source first /etc/conf.d/basic, and then /etc/rc.conf
> if [ -z "${XSESSION}" ]
> then
>     [ -f /etc/conf.d/basic ] && source /etc/conf.d/basic
>     [ -f /etc/rc.conf ] && source /etc/rc.conf
> fi
>
> # Find a match for $XSESSION in /etc/X11/Sessions
> GENTOO_SESSION=""
> for x in /etc/X11/Sessions/*
> do
>     if [ "`echo ${x##*/} | awk '{ print toupper($1) }'`" \
>         = "`echo ${XSESSION} | awk '{ print toupper($1) }'`" ]
>     then
>         GENTOO_SESSION=${x}
>         break
>     fi
> done
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Forrest Voight wrote:
> I was using an old gentoo system. Forget about KEYMAP.
> But, what about UNICODE? That is related to KEYMAP and consolefont.
> Shouldn't EDITOR and XSESSION be in a user-specific place?

I guess you didn't really understand the code. They can be in a
user-specific place.

If ~/.xinitrc exists, then it gets used instead.

Other variables can easily be set in one's ~/.bashrc, but generally
people want a usable system default as well.

Thanks,
Donnie


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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

Then why can't it  be in /etc/skel?

On 2/12/06, Donnie Berkholz <spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Forrest Voight wrote:
> > I was using an old gentoo system. Forget about KEYMAP.
> > But, what about UNICODE? That is related to KEYMAP and consolefont.
> > Shouldn't EDITOR and XSESSION be in a user-specific place?
>
> I guess you didn't really understand the code. They can be in a
> user-specific place.
>
> If ~/.xinitrc exists, then it gets used instead.
>
> Other variables can easily be set in one's ~/.bashrc, but generally
> people want a usable system default as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Donnie
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Edward Catmur]

On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 19:56 -0500, Forrest Voight wrote:
> On 2/12/06, Donnie Berkholz <spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Forrest Voight wrote:
> > > I was using an old gentoo system. Forget about KEYMAP.
> > > But, what about UNICODE? That is related to KEYMAP and consolefont.
> > > Shouldn't EDITOR and XSESSION be in a user-specific place?
> >
> > I guess you didn't really understand the code. They can be in a
> > user-specific place.
> 
> Then why can't it  be in /etc/skel?

Changing /etc/skel only affects new users. /etc/rc.conf affects all
users that don't override it in their env.

Ed

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Edward Catmur wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 19:56 -0500, Forrest Voight wrote:
>> On 2/12/06, Donnie Berkholz <spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> Forrest Voight wrote:
>>>> I was using an old gentoo system. Forget about KEYMAP.
>>>> But, what about UNICODE? That is related to KEYMAP and consolefont.
>>>> Shouldn't EDITOR and XSESSION be in a user-specific place?
>>> I guess you didn't really understand the code. They can be in a
>>> user-specific place.
>> Then why can't it  be in /etc/skel?
> 
> Changing /etc/skel only affects new users. /etc/rc.conf affects all
> users that don't override it in their env.

And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option to
useradd. It isn't done by default.

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>
> And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option to
> useradd. It isn't done by default.

Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different system, or 
to clean all percieved cruft from the .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a 
sane default is probably better.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.

On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> >
> > And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option to
> > useradd. It isn't done by default.
>
> Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different system, or
> to clean all percieved cruft from the .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a
> sane default is probably better.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul de Vrieze
> Gentoo Developer
> Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Monday 13 February 2006 13:19, Forrest Voight wrote:
> Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
> They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
> and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.
>
> On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > > And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option
> > > to useradd. It isn't done by default.
> >
> > Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different
> > system, or to clean all percieved cruft from the
> > .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a sane default is probably better.

I was just arguing why one should not keep XSESSION in .bashrc only, and 
rely on skel. It's too easy to break.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

What about env.d? Gnome could install and env file that by default
sets XSESSION to gnome.

On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Monday 13 February 2006 13:19, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
> > They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
> > and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.
> >
> > On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > > > And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option
> > > > to useradd. It isn't done by default.
> > >
> > > Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different
> > > system, or to clean all percieved cruft from the
> > > .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a sane default is probably better.
>
> I was just arguing why one should not keep XSESSION in .bashrc only, and
> rely on skel. It's too easy to break.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul de Vrieze
> Gentoo Developer
> Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Olivier Crete]

On Mon, 2006-13-02 at 16:51 -0500, Forrest Voight wrote:
> What about env.d? Gnome could install and env file that by default
> sets XSESSION to gnome.

Can't do... you can have gnome, kde, xfce, etc all installed at the same
time. 

> On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Monday 13 February 2006 13:19, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > > Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
> > > They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
> > > and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.
> > >
> > > On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > > > > And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m option
> > > > > to useradd. It isn't done by default.
> > > >
> > > > Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different
> > > > system, or to clean all percieved cruft from the
> > > > .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a sane default is probably better.
> >
> > I was just arguing why one should not keep XSESSION in .bashrc only, and
> > rely on skel. It's too easy to break.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --
> > Paul de Vrieze
> > Gentoo Developer
> > Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> > Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
> >
> >

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer


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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

What happens if two env.d files set the same variable?

On 2/13/06, Olivier Crete <tester@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-13-02 at 16:51 -0500, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > What about env.d? Gnome could install and env file that by default
> > sets XSESSION to gnome.
>
> Can't do... you can have gnome, kde, xfce, etc all installed at the same
> time.
>
> > On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > On Monday 13 February 2006 13:19, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > > > Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
> > > > They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
> > > > and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.
> > > >
> > > > On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > On Monday 13 February 2006 03:33, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > > > > > And even then, it's only copied over when you specify the -m
> option
> > > > > > to useradd. It isn't done by default.
> > > > >
> > > > > Users might further decide they use a .bashrc from a different
> > > > > system, or to clean all percieved cruft from the
> > > > > .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a sane default is probably better.
> > >
> > > I was just arguing why one should not keep XSESSION in .bashrc only, and
> > > rely on skel. It's too easy to break.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > --
> > > Paul de Vrieze
> > > Gentoo Developer
> > > Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
> > > Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Olivier Crête
> tester@gentoo.org
> Gentoo Developer
>
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[John Myers]

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On Monday 13 February 2006 14:24, Forrest Voight wrote:
> What happens if two env.d files set the same variable?
AFAIK, the env.d files processed in lexicographic order, and later entries 
override earlier ones, except for certain variables (such as PATH) which are 
added to instead.
-- 
# 
# electronerd, the electronerdian from electronerdia
#

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Alec Warner]

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Forrest Voight wrote:
> What happens if two env.d files set the same variable?
> 
You write an eselect module to choose between them :)

> On 2/13/06, Olivier Crete <tester@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 2006-13-02 at 16:51 -0500, Forrest Voight wrote:
>>
>>>What about env.d? Gnome could install and env file that by default
>>>sets XSESSION to gnome.
>>
>>Can't do... you can have gnome, kde, xfce, etc all installed at the same
>>time.
>>
>>

-Alec Warner

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 13 February 2006 19:01, Alec Warner wrote:
> Forrest Voight wrote:
> > What happens if two env.d files set the same variable?
>
> You write an eselect module to choose between them :)

brrrrrr wrong
-mike
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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

How is that wrong? If it isn't, eselect would be a great way to switch
EDITOR and XSESSION.

On 2/13/06, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Monday 13 February 2006 19:01, Alec Warner wrote:
> > Forrest Voight wrote:
> > > What happens if two env.d files set the same variable?
> >
> > You write an eselect module to choose between them :)
>
> brrrrrr wrong
> -mike
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 13 February 2006 20:07, Forrest Voight wrote:
> How is that wrong? If it isn't, eselect would be a great way to switch
> EDITOR and XSESSION.

jesus, talk about over engineering

using eselect to manage some default variables instead of simply editing your 
~/.bashrc file is like using a backhoe to dig a hole for a bonsai tree ... 
sure it'll work, but who the hell wants a goddamn bonsai tree
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[John Mylchreest]

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On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 08:15:23PM -0500, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Monday 13 February 2006 20:07, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > How is that wrong? If it isn't, eselect would be a great way to switch
> > EDITOR and XSESSION.
> 
> jesus, talk about over engineering
> 
> using eselect to manage some default variables instead of simply editing your 
> ~/.bashrc file is like using a backhoe to dig a hole for a bonsai tree ... 
> sure it'll work, but who the hell wants a goddamn bonsai tree
> -mike

I have 2 :)

But on topic, I totally agree with Mike. OK, Possibly EDITOR and
XSESSION are better suited to somewhere else other than rc, but atm that
place doesn't exist, and imo doesn't warrant creation.

/etc/env.d/ (when it comes to setting a default editor) just seems very odd to me. It's not easily managed from a package perspective. It can easily just throw some random behaviour.

Of course, user specific EDITOR etc, is much better set in the
appropriate ~/dotfiles. System wide, all we need is a workable default.

-- 
Role:            Gentoo Linux Kernel Lead
Gentoo Linux:    http://www.gentoo.org
Public Key:      gpg --recv-keys 9C745515
Key fingerprint: A0AF F3C8 D699 A05A EC5C  24F7 95AA 241D 9C74 5515


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[gentoo-dev] Re: /etc/rc.conf

[Forrest Voight]

Ok, forget EDITOR and XSESSION. I just started saying earlier that
DISPLAYMANAGER could be put in /etc/conf.d/xdm. XSESSION and
DISPLAYMANAGER are different, they just both relate to X. There is
really no reason not to split them up.

Forrest

On 2/14/06, John Mylchreest <johnm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 08:15:23PM -0500, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > On Monday 13 February 2006 20:07, Forrest Voight wrote:
> > > How is that wrong? If it isn't, eselect would be a great way to switch
> > > EDITOR and XSESSION.
> >
> > jesus, talk about over engineering
> >
> > using eselect to manage some default variables instead of simply editing
> your
> > ~/.bashrc file is like using a backhoe to dig a hole for a bonsai tree ...
> > sure it'll work, but who the hell wants a goddamn bonsai tree
> > -mike
>
> I have 2 :)
>
> But on topic, I totally agree with Mike. OK, Possibly EDITOR and
> XSESSION are better suited to somewhere else other than rc, but atm that
> place doesn't exist, and imo doesn't warrant creation.
>
> /etc/env.d/ (when it comes to setting a default editor) just seems very odd
> to me. It's not easily managed from a package perspective. It can easily
> just throw some random behaviour.
>
> Of course, user specific EDITOR etc, is much better set in the
> appropriate ~/dotfiles. System wide, all we need is a workable default.
>
> --
> Role:            Gentoo Linux Kernel Lead
> Gentoo Linux:    http://www.gentoo.org
> Public Key:      gpg --recv-keys 9C745515
> Key fingerprint: A0AF F3C8 D699 A05A EC5C  24F7 95AA 241D 9C74 5515
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Daniel Drake]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Isn't XSESSION *only* used by display managers?  I know for a fact that
> it isn't used by "startx" or anything.

It is used by startx. The following commands have their expected effect:

# XSESSION="fluxbox" startx
# XSESSION="gnome" startx

Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-dev] /etc/rc.conf

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sunday 12 February 2006 14:16, Forrest Voight wrote:
>    I believe that rc.conf contains many values that could be put into
> conf.d.

sounds like your system is outdated

> For example, DISPLAYMANAGER

Donnie already covered this

> and KEYMAP.

this was moved to /etc/conf.d/keymaps a while ago, you should think about 
updating
-mike
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